...and I'm not talking tires, here.

32-2 at the quarter. 63-5 at half. 85 -5 end of third. 116-9 at the end. Losing coach had the choice to do running clock second half. chose not to. Sheez, it got a little boring.

Padgett, take a wild guess who my partner was?!?! Beginning of the third quarter, white (miles ahead) steals the ball on the inbound, scores, red inbounds, gets to half court, white steals, scores, red inbounds, gets down into their key, white steals, fast break, white shoots and misses, red rebounds, Partner calls white time out. I didn't bother to say anything. But I knew Padgett would want to hear about it!

I had a game two weekends ago that started out 50-0, was 54-4 at the half, went to 98-4 (at which time my partner called a T against a player from the team with 4), and finished 106-21.
This was a BOYS game! I'd never seen anything like it.

Juulie, if this was a close score late in the game, I'm sure you would have heard some complaints from the Red coach. Not to mention other officials or supervisor in the stands. Then your partner and you (remember you are a team)don't look good.

In a major blow-out situation like this, I tend to loose focus, and I'm sure if a time-out was called, i'd grant it no matter what. People make mistakes, a supervisor realizes that. And any supervisor or official who is publicly(sp?) complaining about the officiating at any game should not be supervising. Things are talked over with the officials after the game, not shouted at them during the game.

ref18 -- you're right, of course. But who was talking about a supervisor shouting at an official? I think Traveller meant that the supervisor would point it out later, and quietly.

In a major blow-out situation like this, I tend to loose focus, and I'm sure if a time-out was called, i'd grant it no matter what. People make mistakes, a supervisor realizes that.
[/B][/QUOTE]That's a mistake that your supervisor would expect you to make ONCE though. Not once/game either.

Just curious...Nevadaref, what was the T for?

I gotta tell ya...around here, there is an unwritten rule.
If a team is getting blown out, i.e. 98-4, the team whith 4 can do no wrong.
Of course we would not allow unsporting behavior...and, short of picking the ball up and running down the court, there wouldn't be to many close calls go against the very out matched team.
And you coaches that want to press with a 94 point lead...I tend to see a lot of contact on the steals.

Never referee the score, always referee the game. I've ejected a coach when his team was down by 30-40 pts. He expected us to give his team a break because they were loosing, but his team was hacking away at the other team. The score shouldn't influence your calls.

And in relation to my last post, i misunderstood the earlier posts. I thought the supervisor was shouting at the officials.

Why do you think he's called "ABC"?

BTW - I ran into a long-time TBA coach at the store today. He practically begged me to come back next year. He said that out of all the refs in that rec league, I was far and away the only one who truly understood the purpose of a rec league and "handled" coaches, parents and players properly so that they would also understand. I thought this was kind of funny since he has been one of the biggest pains over the past 5 or 6 years.

Actually, I might "un-retire" if I get to totally pick my games and partners, and "ABC" is completely off the scene. Oh yeah - I'd want a big raise and complementary massages, too.

Ref18 - Please have some faith in me! Juulie, thanks. You know after I posted that and read it I thought "geez, I hope nobody thinks I meant supervisor and officials getting on the refs during the game".

__________________________________________________ _______
"If you're being run out of town, get in front of the crowd and make it look like a parade."—Anonymous

That's almost worth being on the board for. I'd gladly vote to triple your assigner's fee. I won't do massage, though. Someone else will have to "handle" that!

Sorry, but I have a knack for finding the negative in everything :D

?

ref18...if your philosophy and game mangement include calling a game that is tight the same way you would call a game with a 94pt blow-out...then have at it. No wonder you had to eject the Coach...he was probably steaming because you called that "little" hack, or that 3 seconds in the key call, or maybe you got to 6 on a closely guarded play, or maybe the team losing by 40 freaking points had a guard slide his foot a little on a slippery floor.
While my handle here is "RookieDude" (kind of a joke when I first started here)...I have officiated Basketball for over 15 years, been to numerous district and regional tournaments and been selected to officiate 3 State Tournaments. (Actually did 2 with varying degrees of success) Last year I had the number 1 rating by the Coaches that we serve in our association...Was rated number 4 out of 80 officials by my peers, for an overall rating of 2 (3 of us tied for 2nd) in my association. [Tri-Cities Boys Officials Association, in Washington State]
Forgive me for giving a resume...but, when someone (with probably much less experience) tells me how to officiate a game, or how to manage a game it kinda rubs me wrong.
I will be the first to admit that I do not have the rule book memorized...and there are many very sharp and knowledgeable officials concerning rules on this forum...but, when you start telling a Veteran official what kind of philosophy to have WATCH OUT!
i.e. Would you tell Dave Libby (NCAA Final Four Official) that a foul in the first quarter is a foul in the 4th quarter?
Maybe you would...and that's fine...but he would tell you different. (And he stated just that at a clinic I attended years ago...he said have the courage NOT to call it)
Here's a news flash ref18...not all officials officiate the same...we have different styles...we have different ways of handling situations, depending on our personalities.
Watch Veterans...pick out what you like...toss what you don't! Come up with your own style, and maybe just maybe it will be one that works for you while giving the kids a well managed game.
Whew! There will be some here that agree with me...and some here that do not. That's fine...like I said...we all have our own philosophies, and it's fun to read the different points of view.
Sorry for coming off as a "Big Timer"...but maybe when you say "NEVER" do something...qualify it with IMO.

I have officiated Basketball for over 15 years, been to numerous district and regional tournaments and been selected to officiate 3 State Tournaments. (Actually did 2 with varying degrees of success) Last year I had the number 1 rating by the Coaches that we serve in our association...Was rated number 4 out of 80 officials by my peers, for an overall rating of 2 (3 of us tied for 2nd) in my association. [Tri-Cities Boys Officials Association, in Washington State]

[/B][/QUOTE]Can you cook?

Can you cook? [/B][/QUOTE]

You didn't word that correctly, Jurassic. It should have been, "Can you bake a cherry pie, Rookie boy, Rookie boy?"

You didn't word that correctly, Jurassic. It should have been, "Can you bake a cherry pie, Rookie boy, Rookie boy?" [/B][/QUOTE]

...Fast, as a cat can blink an eye....

You didn't word that correctly, Jurassic. It should have been, "Can you bake a cherry pie, Rookie boy, Rookie boy?" [/B][/QUOTE]

Cook?...Heck, I can even strain if for ya Jr...and rainmaker, have another piece.

You gonna shovel it over here?

Can you cook? [/B][/QUOTE]

I can cook..but I don't pee in the shower.

Anymore.

You're cruel.

Funny, but cruel.

Just for clarifciation, the foul was a big-time hold that caused a great disadvantage to the shooter. Usually when a team is loosing, they don't get that agressive, but if they do, I'm gonna call it before it gets out of hand. Because i'm there to ensure the safety of the players, and how safe would the game be if i let the loosing team get away with every foul?? And maybe i went a bit overboard with never, there are different solutions for different situations.

[Edited by ref18 on May 24th, 2004 at 12:10 AM]

So you prefer a shovel over a spoon...

You are?

From here it looked like a shovel was what you were using.

Smilie here! Don't forget there's a smilie here!

[Edited by rainmaker on May 24th, 2004 at 10:31 AM]

My, my, my...we are getting testy here today. And I thought only us Mariners fans would be in pi$$y moods after this weekend...sigh...I actually had a HS Girl's Varsity game - regular season, league game (no rec stuff) that finished at 111-9...one of the worst basketball experiences I have ever had...

Ref 18

Dont worry about trying to explane yourself here. Some egos do not allow them to see what most are trying to say. They just want to pound the drum. Now let me tell you what I'VE accomplished.... I once slept at a Holliday Inn!!

Whether this is true or not, it's good for those with realistic egos for each one to explain oneself as thoroughly as necessary. Learning the jargon and speech patterns is helpful in learning the other skills.

baseball and the "p" word in the same sentence -- rocky, you are skating on thin ice here... prepare to get vaporized! (Wow, PAINFUL mixed metaphor...)

Rainmaker,

What I am saying is, for some here its hard to train an "old dog" new tricks. They choose not to receive advice from anyone with less years on the court. Sence they are so godlike, they would make me feel uncomfortable with them doing a game. Therefor we both suffer!

TP..let's say you have 20 years experience on the court...some guy with a couple years experience comes in the locker room at half time and "gives you advice". This guy is trying to "train an old dog", using your words. This dosen't come off to well with the Veterans I know...myself included.
I mean...when you get to those pearly gates, are ya going to give God advice! :D
You are right about some of our egos here...mine actually happens to be larger than JRuts afro on his smiley face! (with no apologies) I actually heard more than one big time Div 1 official say you have to have somewhat of an ego to even do this advocation.

rockyroad...yeah, maybe a little testy...I'm in Mariner country also.:(

I'm only talking about officials I know personally when I say this.

There are two kinds of veterans; those that are good and those that are veterans just because they have been officiating for a long time. The latter might not accept this advice from someone who has less experience than them but sometimes they should.

There is a ref on my board that was complaining about not getting playoff games this past year. I made a comment to someone that there are some guys who deserve at least one game because they are pretty good. Then I asked if this official complaining was a 2nd year official. I was told he was a 5 year official while the guys I thought should get a game are 3 year officials. I was shocked. In IAABO how long you've been working makes more of a difference than it should (on some boards).

Here is something that happened to me that I think fits.

I arrived early for my varsity game, with about 3 minutes to go in the first half of the JV game. I took a seat in the front row with my bag.

A foul was called that was the 7th team foul, neither the younger of the two officials or the older one noticed and were about to inbound the ball. I was about ten feet away and said, "Hey guys, you are in the bonus." I'm no spring chicken, but this "old dog" decided to stop the game, come over and annouce," I see your bag, you have the next game, I've been doing this for over 30 years and don't need your help."

The half came, I went into the dressing room, figuring I'd let it go, and see if the younger guy wanted any feedback. We get in there and this "old dog" starts in again, about it being his game. I finally said, "Listen, if I'm about to screw up, I don't care if I get help from my partner, the table, a player, a coach, or a fan, I'd rather not mess the game up."

I'd rather be open to another persons opinion and choose to disagree based on what I've learned from my experience, and not because I view my experience as being infallible.

Things have changed so much about officiating that old dogs need to learn new tricks or someone will put them out to pasture.

Do you mean "some" old dogs, or "all" old dogs ?
Do you mean old with respect to age, or years of experience?

I meant old dog in terms of being stubborn and resistant to change.

The old dog in my story fit it for age, experience, and stubborness.

blindzebra: There must be a reason why the guy has been doing JV ball for 30 years. I know the "old guy" didn't say he has been at the jv level for that long, but there might be something there. I listen to all advice, take what I can use, and toss the rest. And, I always say "thanks".

I would have ignored you too, since I always forget who the shooter is for the one and one. :)

I work on that every game, but I still get caught every now and then. I report a foul, the table tells me that we're in the bonus, then I start praying that a player identifies himself as the shooter. Basketball gods have been good so far, but probably won't be when I'm doing a NCAA final 4 game.

At least at that level, you can fix it by going to the monitor to see who should've shot them. (NCAA 2-5-1b)

Of course, good luck getting back to the Final Four after that. . .

Blind Z, Great example !
I choose also to learn from anyone regardless of how many years they have been a ref.

Now for the guy who was reffing a game and had been doing it for 30 years, good for you! Why do some refs feel that it belittles them to take anything less than a V game!