re-jump - different scenario

[Danvrapp]

I'm a first year official, and I had a situation that I haven't been able to find in either the case or rule book. I was umpire watching the toss, and A1 tipped the ball to himself (ball didn't hit the floor or other players) and proceded to hold the ball when he came down with it. I blew the Fox 40 and ordered a re-jump -- was this the right call, or was it a violation on A1 where Team B should have been given the ball for a throw in?

[Gary Brendemuehl]

Violation on A1, B gets the ball and the arrow. See casebook 6.3.1C, part d.

[Brian Watson]

Sounds like he caught it? Either way, Violation on A, Team B should get the ball, and the arrow.

The more important thing as a 1st year official is that you knew something was wrong. Now you will be ready if it happens again.

[Indy_Ref]

Originally posted by Danvrapp
I'm a first year official, and I had a situation that I haven't been able to find in either the case or rule book. I was umpire watching the toss, and A1 tipped the ball to himself (ball didn't hit the floor or other players) and proceded to hold the ball when he came down with it. I blew the Fox 40 and ordered a re-jump -- was this the right call, or was it a violation on A1 where Team B should have been given the ball for a throw in?

Violation! Ball to team B. (Also read 4-28-3 and 9-6.)

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Gary Brendemuehl
Violation on A1, B gets the ball and the arrow. See casebook 6.3.1C, part d.

Right.

And, for our friends from the North who use NCAA rules, B would get the ball but A would get the arrow.

Happened to me last night. Surprisingly, no one said a word when B got the ball and the arrow (Fed game).

[Jerry Baldwin]

All of the posts above are correct. As a new official just remember that either jumper may tap the ball twice and then the ball must touch the floor or a non jumper before either jumper can grab the ball. If either jumper violates, the other team gets the ball and the arrow since player & team control was established by the catch. Good luck.

[JugglingReferee]

Here in ontario, we use Federation rules. The rest of Canada uses other rules. Either FIBA or NC2A.

..Mike

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Gary Brendemuehl

Violation on A1, B gets the ball and the arrow. See casebook 6.3.1C, part d.

I don't have my case book here in the office, but it seems pretty fishy to me that B would get the ball and the arrow. For an OOB violation on the tip, the non-violating team gets the ball and the violating team gets the arrow. Why the double-penalty for a jump ball violation?

[Stat-Man]

I think NFHS changed the rule a year or two ago so that if A1 commits a jump ball violation, B gets the ball, and A gets the arrow.

I seem to remember this change being highlighted on the NFHS site.

[ChuckElias]

Ray, what on earth possessed you to dig up a 5 year old thread?!?!

Back then those answers were correct, but the FED changed the rule to match the NCAA rule. If Jumper A1 catches the jump ball, it's a violation. Team B gets the ball, Team A gets the arrow.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

I don't have my case book here in the office, but it seems pretty fishy to me that B would get the ball and the arrow. For an OOB violation on the tip, the non-violating team gets the ball and the violating team gets the arrow. Why the double-penalty for a jump ball violation?

5 years ago, Team B got the ball and the arrow as the possession by A1 meant that Team A gained control. It was indeed a double penalty.

Stop digging in the archives.

[refTN]

Originally Posted by Jerry Baldwin

All of the posts above are correct. As a new official just remember that either jumper may tap the ball twice and then the ball must touch the floor or a non jumper before either jumper can grab the ball. If either jumper violates, the other team gets the ball and the arrow since player & team control was established by the catch. Good luck.

So you are saying if the ball touches the floor then any of the jumpers can get it. I did not know that. I just thought it was if another player touches then the jumper can touch it.

[BktBallRef]

refTN, don't you own a rule book?

4-28-3
The jump ball begins when the ball leaves the referee's hand(s) and ends when the touched ball contacts a nonjumper, the floor, a basket or backboard.

6-3-7
Neither jumper shall:
a. Touch the tossed ball before it reaches its highest point.
b. Leave the center restraining circle until the ball has been touched.
c. Catch the jump ball.
d. Touch the ball more than twice.
The jump ball and these restrictions end when the touched ball contacts one of the eight nonjumpers, the floor, a basket or backboard.

[Mark Padgett]

Many years ago, I was working a game with the immortal Dave. I was ref, he was umpire. I tossed. A1 tipped the ball, it hit B1 on the shoulder and then A1 grabbed it. Dave didn't blow his whistle and I wasn't really paying attention to that area so play continued. At the first break, coach B asked us why A1 was allowed to do that. Dave told him the ball had hit a "non-jumper" so it was legal. As we walked away, I asked Dave who the "non-junper" was. He said it was B1 - he had worked a number of his games and he hadn't seen him jump yet!

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Ray, what on earth possessed you to dig up a 5 year old thread?!?!

Back then those answers were correct, but the FED changed the rule to match the NCAA rule. If Jumper A1 catches the jump ball, it's a violation. Team B gets the ball, Team A gets the arrow.

I ... ummmm ... hmmm, well, I was roaming around, in the archives apparently, and lost my way. My wife suggested I stop at the corner Chevron for directions. Like that's gonna happen! Then I got so excited to read a question I knew the answer to, I didn't bother the check the "born on" date.

BTW, I wouldn't have hedged my response so much except Gary quoted the case book. But even though I didn't realize this was such an old thread at the time, I was pretty sure he was reading an old case book.