Why some call Kick Ball and others don't!!!

[MREUROREF]

I've heard officials say, "When the game is tight, players are half court pressing, and it's the last few minutes of the game they would let some of those calls go. (ie. kick ball, minor travelling when there is pushing, three seconds, small step inbounds after basket with no pressure, etc.)

Some philosophy about call/no call okay, some will debate, however the Kick Ball Violation; does anyone agree with this?

Okay, if the defender purposely puts his leg out then blow; but if the defender is hustling and the (a) ball hits leg or (b) the ball is on the floor, pinballing around, and is kick by defender. What's the call? Do you need to judge intent or advantage/disadvantage? Like some other calls...and finally how do you think your commish/assignor would respond to similiar violation such as:

(ie. kick ball, minor travelling when there is pushing, three seconds, small step inbounds after basket with no pressure, etc.)

And with the playoff games coming, you want to look as competent as possible without giving the game a text book answer feel.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by MREUROREF
I've heard officials say, "When the game is tight, players are half court pressing, and it's the last few minutes of the game they would let some of those calls go. (ie. kick ball, minor travelling when there is pushing, three seconds, small step inbounds after basket with no pressure, etc.)

Some philosophy about call/no call okay, some will debate, however the Kick Ball Violation; does anyone agree with this?

Okay, if the defender purposely puts his leg out then blow; but if the defender is hustling and the (a) ball hits leg or (b) the ball is on the floor, pinballing around, and is kick by defender. What's the call? Do you need to judge intent or advantage/disadvantage? Like some other calls...and finally how do you think your commish/assignor would respond to similiar violation such as:

(ie. kick ball, minor travelling when there is pushing, three seconds, small step inbounds after basket with no pressure, etc.)

And with the playoff games coming, you want to look as competent as possible without giving the game a text book answer feel.

In both FED and NCAA rules, there must be "intent" to strike the ball for this to be a violation. Accidentally strikng the ball is not a violation.

It matters not if the ball (or the defender) is on the floor pinballing around.

[Hawks Coach]

The rules are the rules, but the reality as I have seen it is that most refs call a kick whenever the ball strikes anywhere below the knee. A leg in motion can and should be considered to have intended to strike the ball (you aren't mind readers). It bugs me to see the kicked ball consistently called when players haven't moved their feet an inch after the pass was released. Perhaps there should be a violation on the offense for throwing the ball at a defenders foot!

[mick]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Perhaps there should be a violation on the offense for throwing the ball at a defenders foot!

Or, perhaps a penalty on a ref that calls that a kick.

[Brian Watson]

Much like the guy who announces he isn't taking any crap I say- WHAT IS THAT??

I call the game the same in the first 1 minute as the last. The game is just as tight in the first minute as the last if it is a close game (usually the game is tied when you start play).

I agree you should let the players decide the outcome, but I think you penalize the teams by not calling it the same way. Ask coaches and AD's and they will tell you it does not matter if you are good or bad, just be consistent. If you do this then, your consistency goes out the window.

Also, if it is tight why do you not call a 3 seconds or travel? If the wide kid is camped out underneath you are giving him an advantage if he ends up with a board or bucket. If he catches, spins, and shuffles through the lane and it is a "minor" travel and scores you hurt the other team. If the PG takes a step to get around the defender you help him. Ridiculous, you have to call the game even all the way through.

Sorry, I'll now get off my soapbox.

[Hawks Coach]

Perhaps this guy reffed in the NHL first, where doctors stand by in the ref's locker room to remove the swallowed whistles after every close game.

[John Crow]

I stick by the "intentional" aspect and do not blow when a bad pass hits a totally unaware defender below the knee. Which you see pretty often.

[JoeD1]

I've never had any problem calling kicking violations. Normally it's fairly obvious whether or not the person intentionally kicked the ball. Often, coaches will teach their players to stick their legs out to try to kick passes. That disconcerts the offense, takes them out of their rhythm, and makes them inbound the ball more times which could very well lead to more turnovers.

There's nothing that irks me more than an official calling a kicking violation just because the ball hit the player somewhere below the knee. It makes coaches think that's the rule and also makes it harder on the rest of us.

I had a game tonight as a matter of fact where twice in the first quarter, a ball was either thrown off a player's foot or was accidentally kicked while players were scrambling for the ball. Neither one of us made a call, which was correct. The coach didn't agree and asked me while I was walking up the court "Didn't he kick the ball?" I said, "He sure did" and went about my business.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
The rules are the rules, but the reality as I have seen it is that most refs call a kick whenever the ball strikes anywhere below the knee. A leg in motion can and should be considered to have intended to strike the ball (you aren't mind readers). It bugs me to see the kicked ball consistently called when players haven't moved their feet an inch after the pass was released. Perhaps there should be a violation on the offense for throwing the ball at a defenders foot!

I agree with the coach. Oh my goodness! Did i just say that?

If the player lifts his foot and the ball hits below the knee, I have a kick. Even if the foot doesn't hit the ball until until it's returned to the floor, it's a kick if he moved the foot to block the pass.

What's the signal for a kicked ball?

[JoeD1]

There is no NF mechanic for a kicking violation, so I just stop the clock, point and say "kicking violation" and give the direction signal.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by JoeD1
There is no NF mechanic for a kicking violation, so I just stop the clock, point and say "kicking violation" and give the direction signal.

You're correct. There's no approved NF signal. It's not very often that I see an official call a kicking violation without kicking his foot. In fact, I catch myself doing it from time to time!

[mick]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

You're correct. There's no approved NF signal. It's not very often that I see an official call a kicking violation without kicking his foot. In fact, I catch myself doing it from time to time!

I try to stop clock, point at violating lower leg, and give direction, instead of the "there's-a-mouse-running-up-my-leg" signal.
mick

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by JoeD1
I had a game tonight as a matter of fact where twice in the first quarter, a ball was either thrown off a player's foot or was accidentally kicked while players were scrambling for the ball. Neither one of us made a call, which was correct. The coach didn't agree and asked me while I was walking up the court "Didn't he kick the ball?" I said, "He sure did" and went about my business.

Wrong answer, IMHO. If he kicked the ball, it should have been a violation. "Kick" is a defined term, and should be used as such.

A better answer would be, "It needs to be intentional for a kick."

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Wrong answer, IMHO. If he kicked the ball, it should have been a violation. "Kick" is a defined term, and should be used as such.

A better answer would be, "It needs to be intentional for a kick."

Bob is correct. It's only a kick if it's intetntional. Joe, you're play wasn't a kick, so your answer should have been, "No sir, he didn't."

4-29 KICKING THE BALL
Kicking the ball is intentionally striking it with the knee or any part of the leg or foot below the knee.

[JoeD1]

Yeah guys I agree. But this was a middle school game and the coach was being a jerk from the opening tip. So in a moment of weakness, I just tried to think of a smartass answer to give him. Normally in that situation, unless he asked me during a dead ball or a time out, I wouldn't even have acknowledged the question.