Coach Management

[rockyroad]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by zebraman

Originally posted by rockyroad

Washington State Girls 1A. Now guess.

Z

Shoot...haven't been to 1A before...was thinking of the guy from East Valley of Yakima when I first read your post...hmmmm...I know the 1A coaches around here are all nutso, so maybe it was Onalaska or Toutle??? Or am I on the wrong side of the mountains?

[dhodges007]

Originally posted by ace
Speaking of ts coming in situations here's a story from the kingwood classic:

Coach down by 24 points.. Complaining. I give him a soft two-hand stop sign (my back is to the scoreboard)go down the floor come back he's still going - give him a hard 2 handed stop sign. Go down the floor come back - player goes up for the shot and he stands up and in a raised voice says to the back of my head, I want an AND 1 ON THAT!" So I t'd him. Now - Had I realized he was down by 40 points with only 2 mintues left in the game I probably would have given him one more stern hard warning and been done with it.

Georgia Techs coach got my attention as I was walking off the floor and said, "You look like a smart guy and a damn good referee, I was shocked to see you drop that technical on that coach." I told him "thats what happens when u cant see what the situation is and you have to take care of business some how."

What's the difference between a soft and hard stop sign?

I have two very different thoughts on this situation. Just because you are getting beat doesn't give you the right to act like a fool on the sideline. I think that a T that doesn't affect the game (20 point difference) at the end of the game shows that kind of behaviour won't be tolerated and sets the tone for the next time s/he sees you. However, if s/he is doing something that they have been doing all game, you should have gotten them earlier.

The second thought is, there is 2 mins left and we just want to get out of here without incident. What will a T accomplish is this senario? Is it just pouring salt in an open wound? But if I am leaning towards my second type of phylosophy, I can't be giving out stop signs or saying, "that's enough" because now i have to do something if he continues.

Just a thought...

[zebraman]

Originally posted by rockyroad
Shoot...haven't been to 1A before...was thinking of the guy from East Valley of Yakima when I first read your post...hmmmm...I know the 1A coaches around here are all nutso, so maybe it was Onalaska or Toutle??? Or am I on the wrong side of the mountains?

Zillah.

Z

[zebraman]

Originally posted by ace
Speaking of ts coming in situations here's a story from the kingwood classic:

Coach down by 24 points.. Complaining. I give him a soft two-hand stop sign (my back is to the scoreboard)go down the floor come back he's still going - give him a hard 2 handed stop sign. Go down the floor come back - player goes up for the shot and he stands up and in a raised voice says to the back of my head, I want an AND 1 ON THAT!" So I t'd him. Now - Had I realized he was down by 40 points with only 2 mintues left in the game I probably would have given him one more stern hard warning and been done with it.

Georgia Techs coach got my attention as I was walking off the floor and said, "You look like a smart guy and a damn good referee, I was shocked to see you drop that technical on that coach." I told him "thats what happens when u cant see what the situation is and you have to take care of business some how."

OK, I'm a little lost here. Coach was down by 24 and then two trips later he's down by 40. ???

Also, how could you not know time and score? You may not have know it was exactly 40 points with 2 minutes left, but you had to know that they were WAY behind with very little time remaining.

If the coach was complaining all game, you should have taken care of it earlier. If he just started his whining with two minutes left, either ignore it and get done or stop play and go talk to him (I have no problem with stopping play in a blow-out game to go have a quick chat with a whiny coach - it would be worth a try before giving the late T).

Z

[footlocker]

I gotta say that the 16 point bucket threw me off too. I'm thinking get out of here. A T is just going to make a tough situation harder for everyone.

[Hawks Coach]

That's why the coach was mad - he would really be mad if they were scored that way all game!

[tomegun]

You guys are thinking the same way I was thinking. I don't know what he could possibly do to warrant a T in 120 seconds. If anything he would do something bad enough to warrant me tossing him but I wouldn't do that either. I want him to watch the rest of the game with me.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by tomegun
Rainmaker, are you saying that he was telling coach Hewitt that the coach didn't see the situation?

No, I'm saying that ace was telling the Georgia Tech coach that ace hadn't kept track of the score and time, and gave the T without realizing the whole situation. I think ace was saying he probably shouldn't have given the T. Which is what I think you were saying, as well.

[tomegun]

Rainmaker, I still don't understand why you made that post. I thought the point of his (ace) last paragraph was to tell his story. He didn't say that he should have known the climate of the game. He just mentioned what he said to the coach. Is it just your opinion that I didn't need to tell him that he could have passed on the T with 2 minutes left?

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by zebraman

Zillah.

Z

Never had the pleasure...darn.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by tomegun
You guys are thinking the same way I was thinking. I don't know what he could possibly do to warrant a T in 120 seconds. If anything he would do something bad enough to warrant me tossing him but I wouldn't do that either. I want him to watch the rest of the game with me.

I don't care how much time is left. If the coach deserves it, he get it. No one gets a free shot at the refs just because they're down big. Ejections hurt them in the next game too.

[lrpalmer3]

Earlier, someone told a story about a coach trying to get a T and the refs even told the guy that they weren't going to give it to him. I LOVE THAT IDEA. If the coach is down 40, he's trying to detract attention away from the scoreboard and find a way to blame the officials. Don't bail him out with the T.

In the last month of summer/rec ball, I have given out more than my share of T's to the losing team in the last 2 minutes of the ball game. And guess what, it's like salt to the wound. Never made things better, and it's frustrating.

Am I doing other refs a disservice by not T'ing up an irrate or cursing player/coach?

Luther

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by lrpalmer3

Am I doing other refs a disservice by not T'ing up an irrate or cursing player/coach?

Yes.

[ace]

The score board was to my back... meaning it was on a side-wall and I could not see it. It seemed during this whole "situation" that I was table side (which is where the clock was) and didnt have a chance to see what the time was. I would normally NEVER bail a coach out with a T because his team is down by 20+ points with 2 minutes left to go in the game. Which is why I told Hewitt that I wouldnt have t'd him had I know what the score was. This game was a fast moving games and both teams were playing really well it just so happend one team was down by 24 (when i dropped the T- ended up down by 40 point difference). Soft stop sign ... Usually two hands (something a DI NCAA official taught me (Tim Marion) and isnt force ful just a light raising of the hands.
A hard stop sign usualy one handed is the typical STOP! sign. I knew the coach was loosing and I figured thats why he was on my case I just didnt know how bad.

Does that help you folks out? Just ask Brad, no one can understand me in person let alone online :-D

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ace
1) I would normally NEVER bail a coach out with a T because his team is down by 20+ points with 2 minutes left to go in the game. Which is why I told Hewitt that I wouldnt have t'd him had I know what the score was.

2) Soft stop sign ... Usually two hands (something a DI NCAA official taught me (Tim Marion) and isnt force ful just a light raising of the hands.
A hard stop sign usualy one handed is the typical STOP! sign. I knew the coach was loosing and I figured thats why he was on my case I just didnt know how bad.

1) How exactly could you "bail" the coach out in situations like this? He ignored not one, but two stop signs from you. I'm with Camron on this one. Score and time remaining have got nothing to do with whether the coach deserves a T or not. The coach's actions are what determines whether he should be nailed or not, and nothing else. If you're gonna let the coach get away with his crap, then why bother to warn him at all? Btw, what would you expect a coach in the stands to say? My fellow coach really deserved that T? I'd take anything that any coach tells you with a BIG grain of salt.

2) Ace, what is the advantage of giving TWO stops signs, no matter what you might call them? You might as well forget about the first one, because it was NOT a stop sign. It wasn't even a warning because you didn't mean it. Do whatever works for you, but I've always found that if a coach knows that a warning really IS a warning, then they'll also know that they've only got themselves to blame if they choose to disregard that warning and subsequently get T'd up. Jmo, but I think that you're better off to be consistent with the players and coaches. Letting a coach get away with unsporting conduct because there is only a coupla of minutes left in the game is like drawing a line in the sand- and then erasing it and drawing a new line later on. How can the coach really know which of the lines that he crosses is gonna actually be the one that he's gonna get nailed on, if you keep moving the line on him?