The Official Forum - charge/block rule

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yes i am here, and learning heaps.

i.e.,INITIALLY, both feet planted and facing the dribbler before contact occurs(defender may then be sideways without both feet planted as the dribbler continues in his path). Also, if the dribbler is able to get his head and shoulders past the defender's torso, the foul is on the DEFENDER. Otherwise, it is a player control foul.

why do the feet need to be "planted"?
Can't the defender stay in his cylinder and jump straight up?

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
JR, thanks for the elaboration on that point. I'd like to add that if the defender remains stationary and vertical, but the dribbler manages (through some contortion) to get head and shoulders past the torso and causes contact that knocks both players to the floor.... PC.

If the offense gets head and shoulders past the defender, the defender no longer has LGP, so contact at that point that occurs on the lower body could be a block or a travel if A1 picked up their dribble before going to the floor, but it is not a PC foul unless you have a push by A1.

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Originally posted by mick

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
the dribbler could push off (clear out) with the free arm, and this would not be a foul on the defender. <U>It would be a PC.</U>

Flagrant?
Intentional?

Only if he clears out with a fist.

Quote:

Originally posted by TravelinMan

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
JR, thanks for the elaboration on that point. I'd like to add that if the defender remains stationary and vertical, but the dribbler manages (through some contortion) to get head and shoulders past the torso and causes contact that knocks both players to the floor.... PC.

After reading your post and assuming you are correct...then you can take the head and shoulders guideline and throw it out the door.

Oh,no. The main onus for contact in these cases is always still on the defender, as the book states in rule 10-6-2. However, it's not a one-size-fits-all call. The defender, once attaining LGP, can maintain that LGP by moving laterally, and there also is no requirement that the defender's feet have to be set when the contact occurs. The defender can't be moving TOWARDS the dribbler though. That's all set out in rule 4-23-3. Now, you have to see where the contact occurs. If, it is on the side of the torso (as it usually is), it's a block, as per casebook play 4.23.3. If the contact is ON the torso however, as per the dribbler leaning in, then you could still have a PC on the dribbler, as per the wording in rule 4-7-2(b). As Hawks Coach stated, there's different rules and concepts governing the final call on plays like this, and you have to know all of them.

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Not at all. We just have to realize it's a guideline and not a rule. The point of my post is to point out that there are going to be exceptions. You're telling me that you're calling a block on a stationary (and vertical) B1 because A1 happens to be a contortionist who can use the loophole in the rule by getting his head and shoulders past B1 before taking B1 out with his legs?

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Not at all. Once A1 has the head and shoulder past the B1, B1 has lost the right to be moving laterally since any such movement that matters would be toward A1 (B1 has lost LGP). If B1 continues to be moving, foul on the B1. If B1 is stationary at the point of contact, then any contact worth of a foul would be a PC foul on A1.

JR, Snaq, Camron - much clearer now. Toby are you getting this?