1) C'mon, Chuck. You ain't Ronnie Rookie. You're not gonna call that violation if A4 just steps on the OOB line. You're gonna call it as soon as you think that A4 is OOB to gain an advantage, and not until then! And it's at that exact same point- recognizing that A4 is OOB to gain an advantage- that you can also call the T, by rule.

2) apples and oranges!

Btw, if you get tired of arguing this, we could always switch sides for a while. You argue for the T, and I'll argue for a violation.

Sounds reasonable to me.

ok it was my question so I can now answer and the thread is over:
Call the violation. It fits the crime

Stew in Va
CVBOA

ok it was my question so I can now answer and the thread is over:
Call the violation. It fits the crime

and besides the ball is live not dead- so a technical just doesn't fit here.

Stew in Va
CVBOA

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

If the inbounder stepped onto the bleachers and threw the ball in, would you T him up for gaining an unfair height advantage? Or would you call the violation for leaving the designated spot? It doesn't matter if the extra height is unsportsmanlike b/c as soon as he left the spot, he had already violated. This is the same to me.

Ah, but Chuck, if he simply steps on the bleachers behind him, has he really left the spot?

Stew, you might want to rethink this. There are at least a hundred scenarios where a T fits during live ball play.

What it sounds like to me is the ex-lax is finally kicking in.

good job Jurassic
 

Jurassic Referee, I am glad you brought this up because when I read the original thread the thought of 10-3-3 entered my mind as well. You're right; it is worth a discussion. You never said which way you would call it, but it begs the question.

It seems to me that we all agree that this is at minimum a violation. Personally, I would go with this. A turnover is a reasonable punishment to me. Two shots and the ball is a little harsh. I have seen, the thrower release the ball, run behind the screen by staying out of bounds and enter the court to receive a pass- in this situation, it's definitely a T- but I only call it if the pass comes back to that player, hence an advantage gained.

I'd go with the technical foul because that section was written for this kind of situation.

A player who leaves the court in order to get open is leaving the court for an unauthorized reason.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Eric Huechteman

Quote:

I'd go with the technical foul because that section was written for this kind of situation. A player who leaves the court in order to get open is leaving the court for an unauthorized reason.

I just rethought my position. I would also just call a violation for this reason: 9-2-12 specifically deals with this situation. To utilize a source that has no bearing here, Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised states that a specific statement, when it applies, always trumps a general statement. 9-2 deals specifically with throw-in provisions, whereas 10-3-3 deals only generally with stepping OOB.

The distinction is clearly indistinct.

However, since the case book gives 3 illustrations of applying 10-3-3 and none of applying 9-2-12, a technical should be assessed, based on the preponderance of evidence.:)

I just rethought my position. I would also just call a violation for this reason: 9-2-12 specifically deals with this situation. To utilize a source that has no bearing here, Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised states that a specific statement, when it applies, always trumps a general statement. 9-2 deals specifically with throw-in provisions, whereas 10-3-3 deals only generally with stepping OOB.
[/B][/QUOTE]Uh no, 10-3-3 deals <b>specifically</b> with players stepping out of bounds. It covers ALL situations, including throw-in situations.

The only thing that you had right was that your source had no bearing at all on this situation.

Actually, there is a casebook play applying 9-2-12. Casebook play 9.2.9. The (a) section is kinda interesting. It has a spot throw-in where the referee has placed the ball on the floor. Note that two A players go OOB in this one, and the violation is NOT called immediately. You only call the violation if the player without the ball doesn't immediately return in-bounds when his teammate picks up the ball.

Duck season!!

Rabbit season!!

Duck season!!

Rabbit season!!

Rabbit season!!

Duck season --- Blammo!!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Snaqwells

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias Quote: If the inbounder stepped onto the bleachers and threw the ball in, would you T him up for gaining an unfair height advantage? Or would you call the violation for leaving the designated spot? It doesn't matter if the extra height is unsportsmanlike b/c as soon as he left the spot, he had already violated. This is the same to me. Ah, but Chuck, if he simply steps on the bleachers behind him, has he really left the spot?

Didn't see the smileys....are you serious?