Equipment problem

jwild1665 · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 30, 2000, 10:40pm

A player's shoelace becomes untied. The ball is live and the clock is running with his team in possession. He beckons you to stop action by pointing at his shoelace. Do you stop play, or not? If you stop play, do you make the player leave the game, similar to an injury timeout?

BktBallRef · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 30, 2000, 10:52pm

No, you do not stop play to allow a player to tie his shoe. He can wait until there's a dead ball or he can tie while the ball is live, but do not stop the clock.

Brian Watson · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 30, 2000, 10:57pm

You wait until a dead ball, unless he wants to burn a 30.

ilya · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 30, 2000, 10:59pm

the team can always take a timeout, like brian said.
that actually happened to me a few times.
i either wit for a dead ball or tie right away.

mick · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 30, 2000, 11:09pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
No, you do not stop play to allow a player to tie his shoe. He can wait until there's a dead ball or he can tie while the ball is live, but do not stop the clock.

I have always stopped the clock for safety issues.
Where may I find a ruling to the contrary?
HELP!!!!!!!!!

Brian Watson · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 30, 2000, 11:45pm

Mick,

Don't have my rule book in front of me, but I believe the note is on a dead ball no time out will be charged for misplaced eyewear or to tie shoelaces.

I don't think you can justify stopping play, at least in my area. Dead ball, hold it up all day long, but never during play.

BktBallRef · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 30, 2000, 11:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
No, you do not stop play to allow a player to tie his shoe. He can wait until there's a dead ball or he can tie while the ball is live, but do not stop the clock.

I have always stopped the clock for safety issues.
Where may I find a ruling to the contrary?
HELP!!!!!!!!!

Do you really stop the clock to let a player tie his shoe? I don't think the NF really wants us to stop the clock to allow a player to tie his shoe. I can't find anything in the rulebook that says to stop it or not stop it. But until someone tells me to, I'm not going to. I believe his team can hold the ball and allow the player to take three or four seconds to tie his shoe if it's that important. I see them do it all the time.

mick · #8 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 31, 2000, 12:09am

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
No, you do not stop play to allow a player to tie his shoe. He can wait until there's a dead ball or he can tie while the ball is live, but do not stop the clock.

I have always stopped the clock for safety issues.
Where may I find a ruling to the contrary?
HELP!!!!!!!!!

Do you really stop the clock to let a player tie his shoe? I don't think the NF really wants us to stop the clock to allow a player to tie his shoe. I can't find anything in the rulebook that says to stop it or not stop it. But until someone tells me to, I'm not going to. I believe his team can hold the ball and allow the player to take three or four seconds to tie his shoe if it's that important. I see them do it all the time.

Tony,
Yeah. I have stopped the clock everytime if there is a lull (no one breaking to the basket, no fast break, just an offense coming down to floor) and, of course, the untied shoe lace has to be on offense.
It seems right to do it. I dunno.
I'm listening....
mick

hoopsrefBC · #9 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 31, 2000, 01:44am

What would you do when a players shoe comes off ??, is this a safety concern, i don't think so.

My suggestion to a player who tells me that their shoelaces is untide is to respond. "Make sure it does happen again else it's a technical foul", after laughing all the way up the court i would look at them and suggest that they tie the laces in a double knot.

and no i would not stop the play or give a technical, mind you along the same lines when a rebounder on a free throw asks "How many shot", just after i as the lead am steping out of the lane i always respond with "17" or " would you like to use your "pull the audience lifeline".

The best however was when a defensive player asked "How many ref" just after i indicated that we had "1" shot remaining before i could respond, the offensive player beside the defensive player responded "2" and smiled.

I smiled along with him and watch as he obtained the easiest
offensive rebound and put back of the game.

HAPPY NEW YEAR
sh

[Edited by hoopsrefBC on Dec 31st, 2000 at 12:54 AM]

Love2ref4Ever · #10 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 31, 2000, 08:27am

In the last week I have had this situation at least 2 times.Forunate for me In one situation A1 asked me to hold up the game while B2 was shooting the first of 2 free throws.My response was you can just tie your shoe lace,We are shooting 2 free throws.In the second situation, A1 is inbounding the ball at the baseline in there backcourt, and A3 ask for permission to tie his shoelaces. My reply was just go ahead and tie your shoe,Because there was no pressure on the ball.

BktBallRef · #11 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 31, 2000, 01:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by hoopsrefBC
The best however was when a defensive player asked "How many ref" just after i indicated that we had "1" shot remaining before i could respond, the offensive player beside the defensive player responded "2" and smiled.

I smiled along with him and watch as he obtained the easiest
offensive rebound and put back of the game.

I enjoyed that one BC!

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 01, 2001, 08:20pm

Prior to the 1963-64 season (I am not kidding) the rules for boys'/girls' high school and men's college allowed the game officials to stop the game or delay the ball becoming alive so that a player could tie a shoe lace that had come untied.

Starting with the 1963-64 season the Rules Committtee (the National Basketball Committee of the United States and Canada which wrote the rules for boys'/girls' H.S. and men's college) deleted a sentence in the rules that allowed the game officials to stop the game or delay the ball becoming alive so that a player could tie a shoe lace the had come untied. The change was covered in the front of the rule book as an editorial change.

Staring with the 1978-79 season that the National Basketball Committee of the United States and Canada disbanded and the NFHS and NCAA created their own rules committees. When these two committees were formed all case book plays and rulings of the NBCUSC were kept. These case book plays and rulings are still in effect unless they have been superceded by a rule change or new case book play ruling.

The decision of 1963-64 has never been changed and therefore is still in effect. The problem is that the change was an editorial change and unless one have ever read a 1963-64 rule book or have discussed rules with some oldtimers (and I have done both) one would never know that there is a ruling in place to cover this situation. That is why many officials will stop the game to let the player tie his/her shoe and use safety as an excuse. It is the player who is responsible to make sure that his/her shoes are properly tied.

I myself am more lenient during jr. H.S. games but for H.S. freshmen and above I go by what the Rules Committee wants and that was spelled out in the 1963-64 rule book. That means it is a player's responsibility to keep his/her shoes tied and suffer the consequences if it comes untied.

mick · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 01, 2001, 08:32pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Prior to the 1963-64 season (I am not kidding) the rules for boys'/girls' high school and men's college allowed the game officials to stop the game or delay the ball becoming alive so that a player could tie a shoe lace that had come untied.

I myself am more lenient during jr. H.S. games but for H.S. freshmen and above I go by what the Rules Committee wants and that was spelled out in the 1963-64 rule book. That means it is a player's responsibility to keep his/her shoes tied and suffer the consequences if it comes untied.

Thanks for that enlightenment.
I am a worrier.
I see one of those long shoe laces being stepped on and the wearer falling on the floor and splitting his head open, closely followed by a shark with a breifcase coming out of the stands.
mick

williebfree · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 01, 2001, 08:55pm

What is the problem with "stopping play" when you notice a player in need of getting his equipment straightened out.

As an official, my first concern is the well-being of the players on the court. If this means "blowing the whistle" to create an opportunity for a player to tie a shoe, so be it! (Especially as a Jr. High, aka middle School, player) "Sharks with briefcases" are not my concern, but they are out there....

Happy New Year!

mick · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 01, 2001, 08:57pm

Quote:

Originally posted by williebfree
What is the problem with "stopping play" when you notice a player in need of getting his equipment straightened out.

As an official, my first concern is the well-being of the players on the court. If this means "blowing the whistle" to create an opportunity for a player to tie a shoe, so be it! (Especially as a Jr. High, aka middle School, player) "Sharks with briefcases" are not my concern, but they are out there....

Happy New Year!

Thanks, willie. I needed that.