:rolleyes:

I'm lead in transition, Trail is almost to midcourt. A1 dribbles over the midcourt line, ball is clearly in frontcourt. A1 passes to A2. A2 jumps from the backcourt, catches the ball and lands in the frontcourt.

Partner correctly whistles the violation. Coach is up immediately. "He wasn't in the backcourt!!"

Partner ignores him, so coach follows up with "Learn the rule!"

After becoming the new Trail, I inbounded the ball table side and stayed with the rule-saavy coach. "Coach, he got the call right"

"But he was in the frontcourt!"

"It's not where you land, Coach, it's the last place you were touching."

"Yeah, but he was still in the air when he caught it!"

"Which means he was still in the backcourt. Trust me on this one, Coach"

"Ok, I get it."

I don't think he really did.

Chuck - give him the old bromide, "you are where you were 'till you get where you're going".

Then - when you get that blank stare, tell him it's a basic principle of Newtonian physics.

Then stare at his pants and puke on his shoes. :p

There are a number of situations that appear to be backcourt that are not. Another confusing non-call is where A1 is bringing ball up under pressure and A2 is at midcourt with one foot in backcourt and one foot in frontcourt. A1 passes to A2 and A2 catches and swings his front foot to the backcourt and returns pass to A1 who is still in backcourt. Coaches scream about this one. It would be a good idea for coaches to get a one night clinic covering situations like this.

Holy dexter Chuck.

This is about as close to an automatic T as I get.

Especially in AAU ball.

Sometimes I'll follow up the explanation with a comparison to a rule they are more familiar with like, "it's the same as jumping oob to save a ball, you are considered to be where you last touched the floor." Sometimes that turns on the light for them. Sometimes not.

What if...

A1 with ball for throw-in in his backcourt. Passes to A2 who, standing in the frontcourt, jumps, catches ball in air, and lands in the backcourt.

Violation?

No. This play is an exception that is explicitly given in the rulebook.

A similar exception applies to a defender making a steal who jumps from his/her frontcourt and lands in the backcourt.

What am I missing here? Case book 9.9.1c, says to me this IS a backcourt violation. Team A is in team control, last to touch it while in front court (not where you're going till you get there), and first to touch in backcourt.

I think what you are talking about is on a throw-in. That would not be a violation as no team control.

tjchamp,
Uhm, read mxd's post again. It states "A1 with ball for throw-in in his backcourt."

My bad! I do have to learn to read better.

Not true. There is TEAM CONTROL. It's established as soon as A2 catches the ball. The rule simply allows A2 to land in the BC in this situation, even though team control has been established.

Additionally, where the throw-in originated is irrelevant. Even if the throw-in came from the frontcourt, it's still ok to catch it while airborne and land in your backcourt.

Really? Maybe my threshold is too high. I thought it was funny rather than unsportsmanlike. Plus, he said it to my partner. If he was offended, he coulda whacked him his own self.

Might be my sense of humor is not so well developed.

Yelling "Learn the rule" earns a T.

Dan, I can see your point of view in T'ing him up. Tone of voice and manner in which something is said is important to me when I make that decision to T or not. But I also see Chuck's point of view. It is kind of hilarious. It would have gotten a chuckle out of me.

Still, you did better than my partner did earlier this season when I made the same call right in front of the coach of the offending team. The coach didn't even pretend that he got it after it was explained more than once...

That throw in sitch is my pet peeve. Unfortunately, too many refs at 7th grade get that wrong.

I have only been t'd up a few times in 12 years, and 2 of them were this situation. And that was in the last few years because I think that rule was adjusted 5 years or so ago.

What really upset me, is the partner saw the whole thing, I called a time-out and asked the partner to please discuss it with the guy that made the call, at this point, I am calm cool and as red in the face as you can get without curse words coming out. When the partner says, I know it was wrong coach, but I don't feel I should over-rule him on this one, I came unglued. Sorry, call me a howler, but I understand this to be a correctable error, but this partner didn't have enough balls to do it.

Coach, while it's true that the calling official could change his call if he chose to, within a certain time period, this isn't technically a Correctable Error, as defined by Rule 2-10. Partner NEVER has the authority to overrule for any reason, EVER. In your sitch, partner could have gone to calling official, and quietly suggested that the rule might have been mis-interpreted, and offered him the chance to change his own call. That's as much as the partner is allowed to do, by rule.

TigerBBall,
This is not, technically, a "correctable error." That term will solicit more of the same reaction from others. Also, "overrule" is a term we avoid, since we do not have the authority to overrule our partner, by rule. I can approach a partner and suggest he change a call, explain a rule, etc. But I cannot authoritatively overrule my partner.

Like it or not, 7th grade basketball is a learning experience for most refs, and perhaps these two have a history of working together and one knows his partner will not react well to public correction. Perhaps he feels he can best teach his partner by discussion afterwards. Perhaps, he's had this discussion before and knows the partner will not change his call.

Just some thoughts.

As I've stated before on this forum, if the coach is going to be argumentative and is wrong about the rule, it is an automatic T.
That coach who commented "Learn the rule," in Chuck's game would have received a T and been told to look it up himself.

Nevadaref,
What about a case like this with Tigerball. I kick a call, and the coach is yelling at my partner about it (all hypothetical of course). Coach is right, so I think I'll give him a little lattitude (no magic words).

I did kick one of these last season. Throw in from frontcourt. A2 tips ball (still in front court) towards backcourt, recovers ball in BC. Tweet!
H coach is a little peeved, and simply asks my partner to ask me if he had possession. Had I been thinking more quickly here, I would have overruled myself. I didn't, and partner and I discussed it later. We let coach cry for a few seconds, acknowledged him, and it was dropped immediately.

I kicked one last season too. Shot comes hard off the rim, I space and when the offence recovers in the backcourt I hit it. Coach asks, "Where was team control?" My partner brings the ball in and I'm standing next to the coach. I let him know, "Coach, you were right, I kicked it." He smiles, pats my back, and says thanks. He still lost the possession but was gratified that he understood the rule and I acknowledged him. After the game, he tells the evaluator that I did not see in the crowd that this was the best-officiated game all year.

Many coaches want acknowledgement and respect. Interesting… so do we. When the coach is right and I am clearly wrong, it does me no good to insist that I’m infallible. Of course, you can’t keep getting wrong all day and apologize.

Tiger
Why the T? What good did it do you to blow your top? You won't get every call, and they will blow a rule every now and then. It usually all evens out, maybe not every game, but over time. You know what you saw, but you know what was called. No point getting angry - make your point, and the call is either changed or it isn't. But it isn't worth losing your temper, and certainly not so much that you get a T.

I honestly can't remember the last time I addressed a ref in anger - it has been years. I have gotten angry when I deal with refs with attitudes, but never let them know you're mad. It accomplishes nothing positive for you.

Hey Hawks, you sound like my wife.

Caught yourself a good one, huh?

Sooo would you just puke on his shoes as Mark said OR give the T? (shoot, why not both!)

I've had a coach turn to the fans to plead his case on a rule (that he was wrong on) I took it as an insult, so BAM T. End of conversation.

Well then that wouldn't fit what I said, now would it? In your case you have a coach who is being argumentative, but is right about the rule. He probably isn't going to get a T from me unless his behavior is really bad.