Player ignores ref

[footlocker]

I'm reffing a tournament semi-final last weekend. One team was getting blown out by a better team. And you guessed it, it was the officials fault. Anyhow, late in the game the leading team has a baseline inbounds to go full court. The player defending the inbounds jumps completely out of bounds while waving his arms. I blow the whistle and notify the table that of the warning for delay. I tell the offending player, "make sure you don't come accross this line (waving my arm up and down), understand?" This kid (about 17) just gives me a stare. I repeat, "Do you understand?" He won't even look at me. Now I can give him an ultimatum. However, I elect not to and just hand the ball to the inbounding player. But now I'm pissed that he was so disrespectful.

In retrospect, I probably should have stated that he needs to stay on his side of the plane and left it at that. I have never had a kid ignore a direct question before.

Should I have handled that differently. Given that I already asked the question and now he is ignoring me it is not promoting the game any to allow that disrespect. However, to make an issue out of it can worsen the situation. Thoughts?

[Lotto]

Originally posted by footlocker
Should I have handled that differently. Given that I already asked the question and now he is ignoring me it is not promoting the game any to allow that disrespect. However, to make an issue out of it can worsen the situation. Thoughts?

Personally, I shrug it off and hand the ball off to the inbounding player.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by footlocker
I'm reffing a tournament semi-final last weekend. One team was getting blown out by a better team. And you guessed it, it was the officials fault. Anyhow, late in the game the leading team has a baseline inbounds to go full court. The player defending the inbounds jumps completely out of bounds while waving his arms. I blow the whistle and notify the table that of the warning for delay. I tell the offending player, "make sure you don't come accross this line (waving my arm up and down), understand?" This kid (about 17) just gives me a stare. I repeat, "Do you understand?" He won't even look at me. Now I can give him an ultimatum. However, I elect not to and just hand the ball to the inbounding player. But now I'm pissed that he was so disrespectful.

In retrospect, I probably should have stated that he needs to stay on his side of the plane and left it at that. I have never had a kid ignore a direct question before.

Should I have handled that differently. Given that I already asked the question and now he is ignoring me it is not promoting the game any to allow that disrespect. However, to make an issue out of it can worsen the situation. Thoughts?

Thoughts?

What did you expect him to do, slaughter a calf as an offering for you?

Not all kids deal with "authority figures" in the same way. It's no big deal.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by footlocker
I'm reffing a tournament semi-final last weekend. One team was getting blown out by a better team. And you guessed it, it was the officials fault. Anyhow, late in the game the leading team has a baseline inbounds to go full court. The player defending the inbounds jumps completely out of bounds while waving his arms. I blow the whistle and notify the table that of the warning for delay. I tell the offending player, "make sure you don't come accross this line (waving my arm up and down), understand?" This kid (about 17) just gives me a stare. I repeat, "Do you understand?" He won't even look at me. Now I can give him an ultimatum. However, I elect not to and just hand the ball to the inbounding player. But now I'm pissed that he was so disrespectful.

In retrospect, I probably should have stated that he needs to stay on his side of the plane and left it at that. I have never had a kid ignore a direct question before.

Should I have handled that differently. Given that I already asked the question and now he is ignoring me it is not promoting the game any to allow that disrespect. However, to make an issue out of it can worsen the situation. Thoughts?

I will probably take a lot of heat for what I am about to post but so be it.

First, I do not want to hear excuses about the player being deaf. Without going into detail, ever since my first year as a women's college official I have made it a point to make sure if I have any deaf players on the court.

Second, I do not want to hear excuses about players not understanding english. The percentage of players in that category is extremely small.

Now to the heart of my post. Do not give the player (or any coach for that matter) an ultimatum. If the player is staring at you, he heard you. His refusual to answer your question is disrepectful and after the second refusal to answer you, it is okay to give him a technical foul for unsportsmanlike conduct. If the the player's coach complains about the technical foul then shame on him, because he is part of the problem not part of the solution.

I am old school. I was taught to show respect to my elders and that included sports officials. My wife and I expect our sons to do the same. Over the last twenty years that has been a steady decline in civilized behavior and just because there has been a decline in civilized behavior is not reason to tolerate uncivilized behavior.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I will probably take a lot of heat for what I am about to post but so be it.

First, I do not want to hear excuses about the player being deaf. Without going into detail, ever since my first year as a women's college official I have made it a point to make sure if I have any deaf players on the court.

Second, I do not want to hear excuses about players not understanding english. The percentage of players in that category is extremely small.

Now to the heart of my post. Do not give the player (or any coach for that matter) an ultimatum. If the player is staring at you, he heard you. His refusual to answer your question is disrepectful and after the second refusal to answer you, it is okay to give him a technical foul for unsportsmanlike conduct. If the the player's coach complains about the technical foul then shame on him, because he is part of the problem not part of the solution.

I am old school. I was taught to show respect to my elders and that included sports officials. My wife and I expect our sons to do the same. Over the last twenty years that has been a steady decline in civilized behavior and just because there has been a decline in civilized behavior is not reason to tolerate uncivilized behavior.

Time to fatten the calf and see if we can round up a virgin or 2...

[Brad]

I agree with Mark that this is completely disrespectful and I really dislike it when players behave this way.

That being said, I totally disagree that you should assess a technical foul for the player not responding to you. Doing so is only going to put ALL attention on your behavior rather than the player's.

If he is that much of an idiot, just wait a few minutes -- I'm sure that he is going to do something else stupid! You are doing him a courtesy for warning him about crossing over the boundary. If he ignores you, fine -- just call the tech for reaching over the plane rather than unsportsmanlike. If you just issued the warning and the player performs the same action again to receive the tech, what is the coach going to say?

I always try to identify the one or two PABs on each team and it's usually pretty easy to figure out who they are within the first couple of minutes. The challenge is to figure out which PAB belongs to which idiot parent in the stands

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Time to fatten the calf and see if we can round up a virgin or 2...

I'm not sure JR can get medical clearance for that kind of party, yet. . .

[Edited by ChuckElias on Apr 13th, 2004 at 11:50 AM]

[mick]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Originally posted by footlocker


I am old school. I was taught to show respect to my elders and that included sports officials. My wife and I expect our sons to do the same. Over the last twenty years that has been a steady decline in civilized behavior and just because there has been a decline in civilized behavior is not reason to tolerate uncivilized behavior.

Many socio-economic-environmental factors may come into play.
The kid may know better; perhaps he may not.
The kid may have been taught to react better; perhaps, he was not.

I won't like it either, but I will move on and leave the judgement to smarter people than I.
mick

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Time to fatten the calf and see if we can round up a virgin or 2...

Talk about over-reaction. Yeah, Matsui's 2 for his last 20, but he'll snap out of it. No need for the sacrifice yet!

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Time to see if we can round up a virgin or 2...

Aren't you in NYC? Fat chance!

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Aren't you in NYC? Fat chance!

We'll just drive up to MA where the woman are not so likely to encounter a threat to their virginity.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

We'll just drive up to MA where the woman are not so likely to encounter a threat to their virginity.

Just don't try to find Three Wise Men while you're up there too. That could take a looooooong time.

[Ref in PA]

I agree the kid is being disrespectful, but not to a degree of getting a "T". I would give the ball to the inbounder and play on. To me, a "T" would have to be an act of commision, not omission.

The players did not answer, which is his/her choice. In my opinion, if you "T" in this situation, you have more of a problem than the kid. What if the kid responded "Yes" instead of "Yes sir"? Isn't that disrespect also? You could argue it that way.

No "T", play on. Get the game overwith.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by mick
[/B]

Many socio-economic-environmental factors may come into play.
The kid may know better; perhaps he may not.
The kid may have been taught to react better; perhaps, he was not.

I won't like it either, but I will move on and leave the judgement to smarter people than I.

[/B][/QUOTE]The kid may also just be a jerk. Be that as it may, I'm not gonna T some kid up just for not replying to a question like that either. He's already being warned for delay. If he doesn't heed the warning, oh well. Now he deserves the T.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

We'll just drive up to MA where the woman are not so likely to encounter a threat to their virginity.

The calf might be looking over his/her shoulder though.