Newspaper editorial on assault in Montana

[mick]

Originally posted by ref18
Ya, after this incident, i have to change what i say.

I realize how it might be felt that this statement reflected bias on my part, especially when I called the majority of the kids 5 fouls.

The only problem is the game was a week ago, and the complaint came in last night, and i can't remeber if i said this or not. I remember calling the foul (a hold), I remember T'ing up the assistant coach (he should've been the head coach, he was the most experienced on the bench), but I don't remeber if i said this or anything to the player on his 5th.

"She fails to understand that I say that everytime someone gets fould out."

"...I don't remeber if i said this or anything to the player on his 5th."

T'is a tangled web we weave....
mick

[Adam]

Originally posted by mick

"She fails to understand that I say that everytime someone gets fould out."

"...I don't remeber if i said this or anything to the player on his 5th."

T'is a tangled web we weave....
mick

Ah, but Mick, he already said why he's not sure on this one. He called the foul, so he may or may not have been the one to inform the player.

[mick]

Originally posted by Snaqwells

Ah, but Mick, he already said why he's not sure on this one. He called the foul, so he may or may not have been the one to inform the player.

Everytime is all the time most o' the time.

[Adam]

Originally posted by mick

Everytime is all the time most o' the time.

Well now, I can't argue with that, can I?

[ref18]

By everytime i mean when i'm the non-calling official, responsible for handling the notification.

In this game, I was the calling official. I don't say anything to the player when i call the 5th.

That's why i'm not sure as to whether i said it or not. If i was the non-calling official i would've said this. But in this case i wasn't.

And with the complaint coming a week after the game, i can't remeber many of the small details like how i worded this situation or if i even said anything at all.

I still have to write the report though, and i'm not sure how to word this specific area. My computer's on the fritz so hopefully that buys me some time.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Tim C
"A parent who threatened one of our referees was recently fined $300 by the league."

Could you explain how a "league" can fine a parent.

What law would that fall under?

Thanks,

Tee

Doesn't have to have any law.

Private organizations can establish their own rules ad regulations (bylaws, etc.) which may include fines if they wish. They may not have the authority to collect on the fine but can certainly bar the parent from games and/or prohibit their children from team participation if they refuse to pay.

I don't know whether this particular case has all the right things in place to support the fine, but it's not impossible.

[ref18]

With regards to the fine the league laid out, it was league specific. If the fine wasn't paid, none of the teams from that club could participate in the provincial championships, nor could they recieve any of their registration fees back.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Tim C
"A parent who threatened one of our referees was recently fined $300 by the league."

Could you explain how a "league" can fine a parent.

What law would that fall under?

Thanks,

Tee

IANAL, but my guess is that the parent signed something when their child joined the league stating they'd be subject to such a fine.

Probably not worth going to small claims court over it, but you can easily just refuse to let the kid re-register until the fine is paid.

[TravelinMan]

Originally posted by rainmaker

I agree that there need to be consequences, I disagree about revenge. "An eye for an eye, and the whole world ends up blind." What needs to happen to solve the problem? Our entire country needs to learn the mantra, "Maybe someone else knows more than I do." This isn't just for sports officials to be concerned about. It's for policemen, government workers, doctors, lawyers, and anyone else who must exercise authority over us regular folks based on a body of knowledge and experience that us regualr folks don't have any comprehension of. There's a time to stand up against authority when it is used improperly, but there's also a time to submit to authority, even when I don't understand or agree. And our whole country could use a good anger managment seminar. I'd wager that all of these assaults grow out of unrealistic expectations that are based on faulty perceptions of reality. And that, my friends, is a recipe for Rollin' Rage.

How do we get folks to change? (1) We start by setting the example. Outside of sports, when we find ourselves on the short end of the stick, we need to see a larger point of view, adjust our expectations, problem solve, and when appropriate, submit to reality. (2)We can also find ways to talk others out of their rage-tendencies. "Yea, it's a long line, but the checker is doing the best she can." "I know. I wish I hadn't waited until Dec 24 to do my Christmas shopping too. Know any good elephant jokes?" so forth and so on. (3) We can see to it that the outbursts of violence such as this article talks about are dealt with appropriate in the public view. We need to find ways to project a mature detachment as a desireable attitude. We need to hold these people up, not as monsters, but at pathetic creatures who need our sympathy not our vengenance. (4) at the same time, we need to see to it that there are consequences and that they are certain. Civil suit seems completely reasonable, and it should encompass both compensatory and punitive damages. And it should not take too long. (5) and we need to find ways to REQUIRE the prosecutor to act. In Oregon, we have one of those laws that requires conviction, and imposes mandatory sentence, on people convicted of assaulting an official.

Whew! I guess that's enough lecture for one day.

Apologies for the late response. Rainmaker, no where in my post do I mention revenge. What I meant by "get even" was not to stand idly by complaining, not doing anything to prevent this type of action in the future. I also used the quote as an attention getter to stir discussion. Looks like I got your attention.

[TravelinMan]

Originally posted by Indy_Ref
everyone reads "the rest of the story" straight from the Helena Paper:

"Prosecutor considering charges over fight"

By CAROLYNN BRIGHT - IR Staff Writer - 03/23/04

It wasn't all fun and games at last weekend's 13th annual Swish tournament - but sometimes that's what happens when grownups get involved.

City Prosecutor Bob Wood is evaluating whether to file criminal charges against a tournament referee and a scorekeeper who allegedly broke into a fistfight as a result of a dispute over the officiating of one of the youth basketball games.

Wood said he likely will make a decision today, once he has an opportunity to review written statements from the alleged participants in the fracas.

According to Helena Police Chief Troy McGee, officers were called to the YMCA gymnasium at about 5 p.m. Saturday after tournament spectators reported a fight.

When police arrived at the scene, they found the referee, bleeding from a cut near his right eye.

McGee said the referee told officers that several of the spectators disagreed, loudly, with several calls he made during one of the games.

At the end of the game, he made his way to the score table to wrap up some necessary paperwork, and the scorekeeper seated there allegedly voiced his own concerns with the referee's officiating.

According to McGee, the referee said he was afraid the scorekeeper was going to assault him, so he took the pre-emptive measure of shoving the scorekeeper.

The scorekeeper allegedly responded by punching the referee.

Ninety-four teams from across the state, comprised of fifth- through eighth-graders, participated in the event.

We ought to learn a lesson here. Do NOT be the one to start anything! If someone complains about our refereeing, WALK AWAY! If this official walks away, I bet nothing happens!

From the article by Jay Scott: "one of our Helena basketball officials had his face bloodied and bruised and was beaten to incoherence after a 7th-grade game at a local gym last month. You don't want to see the pictures"

From article by Carolynn Bright: "The scorekeeper allegedly responded by punching the referee".

Allegedly punched the referee vs. beaten to incoherence Huh? Walk away, yes.....but never turn your back on a fan.

[Adam]

T-man, I caught that discrepancy as well. It's like the stories are about two completely separate events.

[TravelinMan]

Snaq, truth is probably somewhere in between, most likely closer to Jay Scott's rendition. Depends on their sources.
"According to McGee, the referee said he was afraid the scorekeeper was going to assault him, so he took the pre-emptive measure of shoving the scorekeeper." That does not ring true. If you are afraid someone is going to assault you, your normal reaction wouldnt be to shove him. You might be ready to duck or maybe back up. Sounds to me like someone is trying to protect the scorekeeper