I cannot believe the bias toward Tenn. called in the game tonight at the end of the game. The officials "passed" on the push (by TN) on the missed layup and have the nerve to call a foul going for the ball with .3 seconds left. Every tournament game I've ever watched or officiated usually permits the players to decide the game. How could those officials after reviewing the tape have the nerve to LET Pat Summit and her big program BE GIVEN that foul and not let the game go in overtime, I want to know. My opinion is that CONTACT, NO ADVANTAGE with both rebounders back to the rim with one second left is part of the game, not a foul. The contact took place the same time as the final horn. Would those "experience/older" officials not hold their whisle on that and let the horn sound and OT decide the game knowing what time was left? My opinion is those officials should not work another tournament game this year for blowing that one. Its plays like this that infuriate and challenge me to work harder at earning a higher level game. What do you think happened in this situation?

I thought the call at the end was questionable. The time had nothing to do with it. Both players came together and because the Tennessee player fell back, the Baylor player got nailed. That said, the women announcers sitting around the desk blasting the officials are some of the worst commentators/analysts I've ever seen. They wanted to get fired up about it, but it just seemed so forced.

What push are you talking about? The only thing that happened before the call was a rebound on the missed layup. The Tennessee player had verticality -- she went straight up to rebound the ball and the inside Baylor player jumped back into her slightly as the Tennessee player missed the put back.

I focused on this part each time they showed the replay because Muffy or Gidget or Bambi or whatever the he!! the Baylor's coach's name is was standing there claiming the "over the back" that I think you are talking about. Nope. Uh uh.

In the end, Baylor left Tennessee hang in too long and then turned the ball over when they had a tie game and the last shot. Too bad for them.

--Rich

i agree with you whole heartedly. i could not believe that they passed on the over the back call on tennessee, and gae the foul to the baylor girl that was innocent on the loose ball. i absolutly couldnt believe it. totally disgrace to a really good basketball game.

mighty

I can live with that reply, however, from an officials perspective I didn't see much meeting/discussion between all three officials to stick with the referee's decision. Shouldn't the other two officials have had some say in this. I liked how the decision was made right away, but I'm sure everything considered and on the line (not to mention Baylor's calm coaching demeanor on the sideline the whole game) would have warranted a different call from me.

That wasn't a foul. The Tennessee player went straight up and got the ball. Too many officials WOULD'VE called that one and penalized the Tennessee player for (1) jumping and (2) for being tall.

They did decide the game. The player made a foul.


They called a foul, then looked at the tape to decide which came first. The foul or the horn. The foul came first, so they have to shoot the FTs.

Well, you were not one of the officials on the game. Neither was I. So what we think does not matter.

No. You are not looking directly at the clock, you are looking at the game clock. Not sure how an official doing their job would even know exactly what time is on the clock. A foul that was called in the first minute, should be called at the last minute. Of course you want to make it be there if you make a call at the end, but the players have to know what has been called and adjust accordingly.

Well you know the saying about opinions and a$$holes. ;)

Well if you do what you suggest, you will never make it to the next level. If you make a call, you cannot take it back because you want the players "to decide the game."

I think the officials followed the rules. This is exactly why they allow the video tape at the end of games to determine what happen first. The shot, the foul, the buzzer or anything having to deal with the time. But then again, if you ever work that level (unlikely with your attitude), but how the rules are written and practiced. Sorry it does not fit your shallow way of thinking.

Peace

in all honesty guys come on. who are you trying to kid. the right call should have been a no call. rich you are out of your mind if that wasnt over the back. as far as it not being called i can live with that, what i cant live with is the fact that a great game was determined on a very very questionable call. the fact of the matter is that they blew the whistle and life goes on, but dont tell me that the over the back wasnt more obvious than the loose ball foul. come on rich.

mighty

There is no such thing as "over the back." Watch the tape. The Tennessee player jumped straight up and rebounded the ball. Watch the Baylor player jump up and back into the Tennessee player.

Are you an official?

What the hell is "over the back?" You either have a push or a block, but "over the back" is not a call. Two players jumping for the ball is not a foul if one player is taller. I admit I did not see the entire game, but I did see the highlight and what I saw I would not call a foul for the play you wanted. I could see the play that was called a foul. But that is best determined by what was called the entire game. If that was called earlier, it has to be called at the end.

Peace

the girl from tennessee is running 100 miles an hour for the rebound. how in the hell can she come to a complete stop in mid-air and not go over the baylor girls back. she is not wonder woman. i am an official and a pretty damn good one at that. for you to tell me that the girl wasnt over the back is your opinion, but i say take in the concept that she is coming hard down the court and she is attacking the rack. i give the official credit for not calling o/b ,but to call the loose ball foul was not right. do you here me?

mighty

im letting it rest. nuff said. thats what makes this profession soo great. we all have an opinion and we all are in judgement situations. in this officials judgement he called a foul. i didnt think it was right, but he saw it differently than i did. would i have made the call? i dont know. im sure hes replaying it over and over in his head as we speak. coulda,shoulda, and woulda are out the door when we have to react on a split second. bottom line is he called a foul, would i have made the call? I DONT KNOW?

not trying to start something rich just giving my opinion.

peace.

mighty

It is called talent. And he did not make any significant contact with the Baylor player. She out jumped the Baylor player.


Are you sure? They must be really hurting for officials if you are calling "over the back."

Well you need to look at the replay. I just saw the replay and I am not sure I have ever seen a player come 100 miles an hour on foot before, but the rule is verticality and she did not violate the girl's space. She did out jump her to make a tip and did not even knock the other girl down. And if it was anything, it would of had to be a PC foul, considering there was no contact before the tip and very slight contact after she attempted to tip the ball. If you make that call, you really cannot be that good of an official as you say you are. Or maybe you are one of the many girl's officials that could not work a boy's game if you got that opportunity. Mainly because you call sorry fouls like you claim took place.


The Baylor player knocked the Tenn player completely down after she had an opportunity to get the ball. Are you sure you are an official?

Peace

you are right and i am wrong. nuff said. ill officiate with you any time and any place. all i ask is that you respect me. if you cant do that than do unto others that they have done to you mr rutledge.

mighty

Respect
 

You are the one coming here telling the world how screwed up they were by making the correct call. And you want to talk about respect? You lost the little respect you had by talking about officials that are on a level that you or I have not achieved. And to use the term "over the back" when a player outjumped another is laughable. Keep up the good work, since you are a "damn good official." :rolleyes:

Peace

i must say you are a class act.

thanks again, i only learn from the best mr rutledge.

take care.

mighty

Is the knife dull or sharp when you use it?
 

I do not consider myself the best. But I sure do not come here and rip officials on a game when <b>I am the one watching it on TV.</b>

If you learn anything, it should be to not call "over the back" anytime in your games. But maybe that is the term for officials that like to use knifes with their fellow officials. ;)

Peace

If i may ask what level do you officiate and how often. I am really curious to know this? I would like to know from what perspective you see the game? Do you officiate major college ball or high school? I would like to just say that i wasnt the one who started this thread,but i was the one commenting about the last foul. I in no way shape or form called the official out. I made the comment that in that paricular situation i would have had a hard time calling the foul. If that makes me a BAD official i sincerely regret making this an objective. I have been an official at the high school and collegiate level(mens) for the last 10 years. I must be doing something right. Didnt want to open up of can of worms, just disagreed with the officials call, if that makes me an outcast than i am sorry. I will never question anyone elses judgement again. I know we have all been their for the sake of conversation this has been fun. Once again i would love to officiate with you any time and at any place. I have a few friends at the D-1 level that i can travel with to get to your location. I would love too. I think i would be a better official after our game.(LOL) I hope you have enough sense of humour to know that i am giving ya a little sh#t. Take care.

Mighty

I'll pass.
 

I work primarly varsity Boy's and college on both sides the genders. This will be my 9th year and I have been doing varsity ball for 8 years with a full schedule. This coming year will be my 4th doing college games. And I have never called an "over the back" foul in any of them.


It does not make you a bad official, but if you are calling "over the backs," then at least in my area you would be watching more than working.

Well if that is all true, you should know that the best seat in the house is on the floor, not on the TV screen. But having said that, to penalize a player that is taller and jumps up vertically, you cannot be working much college Men's ball. Especially when the player you claim got fouled jumped into the Tenn. player and the contact was slight at best.


You can question someone's judgment if you like, but understand we can question your judgment as well. But if you were working the game, I would not be coming here to do so. Just not the way I do things. Especially with officials that are at a level I have never achieved.


Exactly, you would have to travel with them. That is really the point. You are not a D1 official. So until you get to that point, I would suggest that you reserve your judgment or at the very least use proper language to describe a foul.

Actually I would never want to work with an official that calls "over the backs." Because all you would do is get me and our crew in trouble. And if you called a foul on that slight contact you suggested the official missed, then you really would get me in trouble.

I will pass.

Peace

Without commenting on the play under discussion, I'd just like to say how nice it is to have an arguement about the womens' game. In the past three years, there have only been two, maybe three threads about the womens' side, and at least one year when there were none. So it feels like a win for everyone to have this come up.

Officials look at a game from an official's perspective. Fans look at a game from their team's perspective only. Fans are biased. Obviously, MIGHTY VOL, you are looking at this game exactly the same way as the Tennessee fanboy that started this thread. Jmo, but both of you have just about the same believability when it comes to making comments about the officiating in one of your team's games.

#1, there's no such thing as a over the back foul anywhere.

#2, there's no such thing as a loose ball foul in the NCAA.

#3, a "damn good official" should know that.

"do you here me?" :)

You're a college official and you use mightyvol as a moniker in a public forum.

That's like Jim Burr calling himself "Huskies Fanboy".

I agree with JRUT 100% on the no call on the 1st rebound. There was very lil contact and no advantage / disadvantage. Every TV replay that I have seen shows this very clearly as we had an open look from the angle on the camera.

I have seen the last play over and over again and I still have no clue what I would have called. I am pretty sure I would have had a foul also; But thats how close the play was. To say it was a bad call is crazy.

Just for the record. The MO in my name doesn't stand for Missouri :)

I'd foul someone too if they attacked my rack..

sorry.. couldn't resist.

Ya know...you never would have gotten away with this sh!t when Rich was moderator!

:p

Jeez, Tony, you could slap that warning label on about a dozen recent threads. Why stop here? :)

I waited until he was gone to do it. :p

Aha!
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