Keeping new officials?

[JRutledge]

But Tim, not a single person has made the case that suggests that you need any particular skill in order to just move from the freshman level to the JV level. I have not been officiating that long, it has only been 5 years and I do mostly varsity games. But I did a varsity tournament during Thanksgiving with two Class AA schools (Big schools in Ill.) and there was hardly anyone there. I think there were more participants on the floor and on the bench than were in the stands in a huge gym. It felt to me like an freshman game. I had to keep telling myself that it was a varsity tournament game. Now, the night after Thanksgiving I did another varsity tournament game and the place was packed. The gym was not much bigger and there was not a seat empty in the place. I did the first game and I will say this, it was a game between a Class AA team and a Class A team and the electricity was all there. The next game after mine was two Class A teams and the place was still packed. You would have though you were at Duke University with all the electricity in the building during both games, because 3 of the teams were in the area. That game was way more pressure than the Class AA tournament I did two days before. And I was doing a 3 person game in the second game as compared to a two person game in the first tournament. I was much more nervous during the second game. So why is these levels that much different other than the fact that one might have had more attentence than the other.

Originally posted by Tim Roden
I know you haven't called too many freshman games lately but here is a little reminder of what the differences are. Freshman is generally players who are still learning the game. The game is either played three hours before the varsity or an hour and half before the varsity but in an auxilary gym. This is a great place for first year officials to work on their game since the crowds are smaller and the play is not as intense. There is the problem however that since the players are not as good, the game can be very sloppy. There is usually only one coach on the bench so the official doesn't have to worry about assistance.

The JV game, I consider the warmup act. While the gym is nearly empty when the game starts, because people are showing up to watch the varsity, we will have an ever growing crowd during the game. Can be scary for the a new official. The game is usually a little better in quality so it can be an easier game to call. Exceptions do exist. There is usally two coaches on the bench so you do have to worry about assistant coaches and I have seen some ugly incedences here. I have T'd coaches more in the freshman game but I have T'd players more in the JV.

Last Saterday night I did a freshman/JV double header. In the freshman game I had a rookie partner and a third year man for a partner in the JV game. The freshman game was as smooth as glass dispite my partners mechanical problems. He had a weak signal and we worked on his mechanics at the freethrow line. He learned a lot and we had fun. Easy game. The JV game was viscious though. We had a call on a bad elbow thrown. The coaches were all over us and we had to use ever skill we knew to keep the game under control. I am glad we got the Rookie into the Freshman game and not the JV that night.

Whichever you do stick around for the Varisty. A good chance to scout out what you will be doing in a few short years and learn what this thing is all about.

[CLAY]

This is my 3rd year and Iam now getting J.V. Varsity games. I had offers my second year but turned all of them down. I did not think I was ready for that level.

I took every advantage I could to work with a experienced official during my first 2 yrs. I Kept my ears open and mouth shut. Some of the guys were a-holes and other treated me like family.

This past saturday I was scheduled to work a Frosh/Soph game. I like to get to the games about 45minutes before tip off. My partner walked into the locker room, never introduced himself to me. His first words out of his mouth were. " I only do Varsity and State tournaments games I dont do Frosh/Soph. My wife scheduled this game while I was at work. So let's get things straight right now, this is your game and dont expect any help from me. I want to get this game over and get out of here" I said " no problem sir", picked up my bag and left the gym. He worked the game alone. Their alot of things a official has to put up with from the fans and the coaches. One thing i will not put up with is a rookie or seasoned official who thinks they are better than the game itself.

[JRutledge]

My question is still not being answered, what skills and abilities did you feel that you did not have to turn down JV games? Now I know where I live they couple JV and Varsity game together in some cases, but do you feel that you were not experienced enough to do a JV game if called upon and why?

Originally posted by CLAY
This is my 3rd year and Iam now getting J.V. Varsity games. I had offers my second year but turned all of them down. I did not think I was ready for that level.

I took every advantage I could to work with a experienced official during my first 2 yrs. I Kept my ears open and mouth shut. Some of the guys were a-holes and other treated me like family.

This past saturday I was scheduled to work a Frosh/Soph game. I like to get to the games about 45minutes before tip off. My partner walked into the locker room, never introduced himself to me. His first words out of his mouth were. " I only do Varsity and State tournaments games I dont do Frosh/Soph. My wife scheduled this game while I was at work. So let's get things straight right now, this is your game and dont expect any help from me. I want to get this game over and get out of here" I said " no problem sir", picked up my bag and left the gym. He worked the game alone. Their alot of things a official has to put up with from the fans and the coaches. One thing i will not put up with is a rookie or seasoned official who thinks they are better than the game itself.

[CLAY]

the reson i was turning down J.V. and Varsity was i needed to know the rules better, and being able to adjust to the coaches and the verbal abuse you get at that level. I found out while doing a ton of jr high boys and girs games, if a rule is going to be broken or something strange is going to happen its going to happen in a jr game. It is true that the Varsity games are eaiser to officiate, due to the stlye of play and talent of the players. I learned alot about the rules doing jr high that you may take for granted, and sometimes you never have to use. I just wanted to be ready so that when something out of the ordinary happend i was ready and hopefully i could remember what to do.

clay

[JRutledge]

I am not talking about JV games compared to Varsity games. Anyone that knows better, knows that there is a difference between those levels. At least the pressure is heightened. I was wondering why you would turn down JV games as compared to Freshman games and why? Now if you were doing only JH games, that is a different story. There is a difference between JH and HS games of all kinds, but I still feel that a 1st year official is very capable of doing both if they choose to. But I feel that there is not much a JH official could not handle than a JV official, but again this is my opinion.

BTW, are your JV and Varsity games coupled together like many are in my area?

Originally posted by CLAY
the reson i was turning down J.V. and Varsity was i needed to know the rules better, and being able to adjust to the coaches and the verbal abuse you get at that level. I found out while doing a ton of jr high boys and girs games, if a rule is going to be broken or something strange is going to happen its going to happen in a jr game. It is true that the Varsity games are eaiser to officiate, due to the stlye of play and talent of the players. I learned alot about the rules doing jr high that you may take for granted, and sometimes you never have to use. I just wanted to be ready so that when something out of the ordinary happend i was ready and hopefully i could remember what to do.

clay

[Mike Burns]

Rut,
You are correct. There really isn't as big a jump from Frosh to JV as there is JV to varsity. I work both freshman and JV and don't experience a big difference between the two. The big difference is the size of the school. Some schools JV squads are better than other schools varsity.
At first I was bent because they told me I would not get any varsity games my first year. Now I am thankful for being able to start out with JV and work up.

The bad thing about being a rookie is not so much having to spit shine Rs shoes before each game, but man! is his gym bag heavy!!

[Tim Roden]

J. I don't think that a rookie official should be turning down JV games. I called my first girls JV game in the last week of december and my first boys JV game in January of my first season. They were a challenge to me. My second boys JV game was between 5A schools and my third boys JV game was between two schools that two years down the road would be class 4A and 5A state champions. I don't think I could have done them except I had Varisty level officials working with me. I think that is the key. When you put a newer official in a new situation, it is always best to have an experienced official as one of the partners. When I called a BCI game between two teams who only had 5 players who couldn't slam, my partner was a 17 year veteran. I think you should get into these games as quickly as posible but I still say, to get your feet wet, do freshman. Work some sophmore game but I think these are the toughest since these are players who couldn't make Varsity or JV.

You need to find a way to get in 100 games a year. I missed this year. I only did 87 this year because of the moving I did in June and July. I was just reading in NFOA's magazine under football, that you need to call 100 games and make 100 mistakes before your ready for Varsity. In Basketball, you need to call 100 games/year for three years before you are ready for varsity and they need to be progressively better games. 100 1A girls JV games won't help you if you arn't calling 5A Boys and Girls JV too. A 5A boys JV game can be just as much or more challenging then a 2A boys Varsity. A 2A JV game is about the same as a 5A Freshman game.

[doghead]

I'm a newbie (in my second season). Last year I did mostly catholic grade school games. Here in Western PA, these assignments are usually scheduled as two games; a 5th/6th grade game followed by a 7th/8th grade game. One would think that these would be fairly "safe" games for a new official to start, but let me tell you these games get WILD! It is not unusual for the gym to get packed on a weekday evening for a girls' 7th/8th grade game. Now this year, I'm scheduled for the same plus ten JV high school games. Now the crowd is not that big at these JV games, however the coaches know and expect more from you. I had my second JV game last night and really kicked a couple of calls and feel I did a poor job. I'm having a hard time shaking it off today. Anyway, about the mentoring... I have been lucky to receive much support from most people with whom I have worked. As for those who clearly were not interested in helping/mentoring, I learned what I do NOT want to do. I hope that I will always be supportive of those with less experience than I. Regarding the remark above that "some personality types are not suited for officiating"...I think that officiating can help one develop self confidence. I know that it has helped me a great deal in this area. I was encouraged by a remark given to me by a veteran official last summer when I attended a camp for "newbies". He said, "Remember, ANYBODY can become a good basketball official IF he/she wants to put the work into it!" So, I'll keep trying to improve and learn from my mistakes (like last night), shake-it-off, and move on! Just my 2 cents. Can you tell that I'm a mother of three and been stuck in the house all day with noone to talk to? Thank God for this discussion board! I'll shut-up now!

[JRutledge]

I have been fortunate and blessed to do varsity games since my first year. I got those games in my first year in order to cover the weather problems that we had at the end of the year. I think I only did about 2 or 3 that year and all were makeup games. My next year because I was considered good by many I did nearly 60 or so varsity games between the boys and girls. And ever since then I have been doing varsity almost exclusively. Now I say this because I feel that my improvement came from things I did off the court. I watched a lot of NCAA game on TV or in person when I got the chance. I read everything I could get my hands on like, Referee Magazine and the many other publications that they had, I watched games anytime I was not doing a game. That was rare but I had to do my best. When I did a JV game, I would always stay and watch the varsity officials. I think that this is huge to grow as an official. If nothing else you need to see the competition. You need to see what guys are doing or not doing and how it relates to your game. If you do that you will be better off. And you never know, they might tell someone about you. I know I cannot stand officials that do JV games and they do not stay, because I might be able to help you out down the line if I get a chance. Assignors and ADs ask about younger officials to other officials that they have not seen as much. Now I do not quite agree with Tim that you need to do 100 games or more because I really do not feel doing games in and of itself is going to make you better. It is what you do when you are not officiating that can be more important IMHO. I have found that my study of rules, philosophies, practices or just reading and talking to officials is just as valuable. Just talking basketball alone will make you more and more confident when the lights come on and it is time for you to perform. And those are things that have made me successful even though I could right a book on it alone.

But other than that have a great holidays everyone and a great New Year and rest of the season.

Peace out!!!

[AK ref SE]

Rut-
You are absolutely correct, To move up you need to expand your vision past the game you are calling. Referee magazine is a great pub., watching the NCAA games on TV great advise to the young and old! In my area we usually have a three game night. What ever game I am scheduled for I try to stay for the night. I can learn from who is on the floor, and if it is a newer official, it can show them that you care. I will lend support in any way I can! I will only give positive remarks to the official that night. If they have questions on a call I will tell them what I saw from my angle, which of course will make a difference! Positive remarks with a something that you might want to try next time goes along ways.

AK ref SE

[Tim Roden]

Rut, I don't disagree with you on what you are doing off the court. We all need to study, read, and watch others officiate. But some of us need to practice and practice and practice. If you arn't getting any feedback from the games you are calling, then you may be waisting your time.

To they guy who feels bad after calling a JV game. We all feel bad after certain games. This is where we learn the fastest. The other half of the equation is to make 100 mistakes. Make them now and don't wait until you are a varsity official to make those mistakes.

Merry Christmas.

[williebfree]

2nd yr official's comments:

I agree that Freshman games are "unique" in many ways. Here are some GENERALIZATIONS:

First, the fan base is usually very small so the new referee does not have the intimidation of a noisy "high volume" gymnasium. However, as posted before, it is more likely you are going to hear that nagging individual who insists that you're paid off by the other team or got your whistle in a cracker jack box, etc....

Secondly, Coaches at the freshmen level are often "greenies" too. This can result in very undisciplined, disorganized teams. Most coaches realize they have a lot to learn and are very mallable. However, I have seen some "greenies" who knew-it-all and it took all the diplomacy of myself and my partner to deal with his conduct. Unfortunately, the official can become the "scapegoat" for the coaches inexperience (or lack of ability).

Third, Freshman (and other lower level) games are, and should be viewed as, a learning environment for all: coaches, players, timekeepers, bookkeepers, as well as officials.

Here is an example: On Tuesday, I did a sophomore game in which the hometeam coach informed us of a "last-minute substitution" bookkeeper (Regular was sick). BTW: This coach is a notorious "hothead" who was T'd by my mentor last year for Unsportsmanlike conduct.

There were numerous Clock operation and bookkeeping errors by the student helpers. Thankfully, my Mentor (a 13 yr vet, who has worked state tourney games) had all the answers for some fairly bizarre stuff. I am convinced this could have been an UGLY scene had which would have made a couple of rookies really scratch their heads.

My mentor did a great job in the half-time and post-game conference. I left the gym feeling like I had learned a ton of info.

My two cents worth.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by JRutledge
My question is still not being answered, what skills and abilities did you feel that you did not have to turn down JV games?

Rut-- This question hits me where I'm livin' because I'm trying to break up in the JV level from freshman.

In the Portland area we have, this year, probably the top girls team in the nation, and one of the top five boys team in the nation. We also have schools where there is no budget for basketball, no JrHi feeder program, and kids who have never dribbled a ball befire they tried out(and made!) the freshman team. I have done freshman games where the score was 16-15 at the end, and games where it was 75-86 and games where it was 86-16. Yet most of us here will get about half freshman games in their first and second years, with no distinction in the level of the program. Only the very top two or three in the second year will get a few JV games, no one else will see JV until 3rd or even 4th year.

I think there are two main differences in skill needed at the two levels. One skill has to do with floor position, which involves reading the play, staying ahead of the play on the fast break, and knowing when to slide to center, or drop back, or whatever. I see a tremendous difference in the poeple I observe in who knows when to move where.

The other skill that I see makes a big difference at that higher level of play is the confidence to stand up to the coaches and the crowd and not be intimidated. JV players are "on the track" for college scholarships -- at least they think they are. where many freshmen know they will not play again after this year. Good freshman age kids play JV or even varsity, so the pressure on the ref is not nearly as great in the freshman level games.

Both of these skills are learned from experience and the slower pace of the lower level games helps us learn, so the the move up won't be quite so jarring.

Rebecca-- Sorry to hear you had a bad game. Is your e-mail working yet? Let me know about it, and your greatest game, too!!

[Edited by rainmaker on Dec 22nd, 2000 at 11:16 PM]

[doghead]

Julie...I had a computer "crash" and lost all the e-mail addresses in my address book. Send me a line sometime...
[email protected]