I am trying to get some information on the 'triangle' that has been introduced into NCAA 3 man mechanics.

It is pretty urgent can anyone help with a website I can download just to get an overview of the principle of how it works? Or how it has changed from the previous 3-man.

I would be interested to know what you find out. This is the first I have heard of the "triangle." Please share when you find out.

OK, 'my name' for it.

I have heard that the principle is that on a drive to basket the 3 man (triangle) pushes up to the baseline, ie L and C squeeze up.

May be better aksing if there were any general changes to 'drives to the basket' coverage this season, any changes in responsibility/mechanics movement?

Anyone help there?

Could you explain this more? I know that on a drive, the lead closes down (i.e., moves to the elbow) and on any shot attempt, the C and T take a step or two down toward the baseline to see rebounding better. If this is what you're referring to, I think it's been around for quite some time.

Help on 3 man mechanics
 

Mark,

Thanks - I am a FIBA referee, working in the Pro Leagues in Europe, but have attended camps in the US, and called international games in the USA in November as exhibitions.

Is there anywhere I can get an up to date NCAA mechanics manual, or download one from a web address - tough to find one across the pond!!

You can order one from the CCA (colegiate commissioner's association) - I'm sure someone on here has their website handy - but I don't know of any collegiate mechanics manuals that are online to download for free.

From what I found on the attached web page CCA has no web site. I know this isn't what you want to hear but it may save you some time searching.

http://www.ncaa.org/conferences/affiliated.html

Honigs, Purchase Officials, or someone like this will have the CCA mechanics books. Also contact your local college assignor to possibly obtain one. IAABO may have some avail for sale.

http://www.honigs.com/detail.asp?Cat=2&Sub=27&Item=161

[Edited by ace on Mar 22nd, 2004 at 06:35 PM]

This cuts off your field of vision and it contrary to what I have been taught and what I do in 3-person. It is still a game of angles so many times it is better to back away and get a good angle. This also applies to the last free throw. A better view can be obtained by getting wide and standing on the end line rather than closing down and moving away from the endline.
The NBA guys stay put on a drive.
Since most of the jumpers, leaners and peekers are finished most of the NCAA officials who remain will also stay put or back away on the drive.
As always situations will cause us to adjust. I'm of the mindset that I should go into a game thinking about being mechanically perfect and adjust from that mindset rather than going in thinking otherwise.

Yep, L needs to be in the wide angle position on shots.

I tend to agree - I thought that "close down" only referred to if you were going to rotate, not every time a drive to the hoop started. However, my evaluators/supervisors have told me to do this, so I'll go with how they want the game officiated.

I have tried both approaches this year. The problem with staying wide is most pronounced when you get a drive coming from the top of the key. In lower level ball, but even in higher level too, every defender in the area collapses on the ball-handler. If they're playing a zone, it's like an implosion! The post defender on my side will step right into my angle. The guard on my side turns inward towards the driver, often times trying to strip the ball, and I lose sight of his hands. That leaves the ball-handler driving into the middle of a rapidly moving pack defenders and me on the outside looking at backs and butts, certainly not hands and arms. :(

So I prefer to close down as he nears the top of the key, and then step out into the paint when he drives. Now, I realize that I'm gonna catch it for suggesting it's okay to be in the "quicksand." But it's the best look I've been able to get on this play. :)

[Edited by Back In The Saddle on Mar 22nd, 2004 at 11:40 PM]

Limeyref, I have a copy of this 3PO triangle mechanic that you are asking about. It is used in the Australian and N.Z. men's national league games and they play to Fiba rules. If you want a copy, email me and I'll send you a copy.

Maybe you are doing something wrong. The officials, NCAA and NBA, we see on TV do not do this for the most part. The high school officials I have seen, myself included, in the past five years do not do this. Yes, you can get caught in the paint on occasion but it shouldn't be the norm.

If you are a golfer and you set up wrong to drive would you want to correct it or would you say "sometimes this is the only way I can hit the ball straight?" I know plenty of golfers and I think most of them would want to be mechanically sound with there swing and practice to achieve repeatability even though sometimes you have to watch out for the trees, bunkers and water hazzards. The fundamental swing must remain constant and adjustments are made from there. Might be a farfetched analogy but sometimes I'm farfetched :D

BITS & Mark, you guys are doing it right IMO. Most ncaa evaluators want to see the L move in towards the paint, not stay wide when the ball comes in. And there are times when the L gets absolutely the best view by taking a step into the "quicksand".

Dan, are you in a position to know what most NCAA evaluators want? I know for a fact that most evaluators and assigners on the West Coast do not say do this. Getting angles and being mechanically sound is preached over and over again out west. Then, if something happens you adjust.

I don't think there's one set answer. You see some stuff from out wide, you see some stuff from in close. It really depends on what kind of defense is being played and each individual drive to the basket.

Thats way we have a C.

MOST across the US? Nope.

SOME? Yes.

MOST in my area? Yes.

I have no idea what goes on in the west coast.

This is the 1st I've heard to close down when the shot goes up. HS camps aways said back out. In Women's its spelled out, so no confusion there. But, I didn't know the Men's side would want you to close down.

Would the play dictate what to do? I can't see how. I can understand moving in to see the play until the shot goes up, but once the shot is in the air, its about getting 3 different angles. I guess the old saying, "when in Rome" applies to you area.

I just went back & read your comments and I see you are saying stay or go wide on *shots*. I was referring to plays when the ball comes in to the paint, not on the shot. In general the assignors/evaluators I deal with (ncaam mechanics) want the L to not stay too wide when in position A (shot or not), they for sure want the L to move to B as the ball moves to the paint, and most don't mind if you take a step more to observe contact in the paint when the ball is there. I think BITS & Mark were commenting on this scenario, not on what they do when the shot goes up.

Which is why IMO they are doing it right.

OK, never mind

OK never mind too.

I've been eading these threads with great interest, especially as I started it off!

I'm an English FIBA ref working in Europe. Next season all main FIBA competitions will have 3PO. A lot of the pro-leagues in each country - Italy, Spain, Germany, France, Belgium already have this in their domestic competition, and the Euroleague (Non-FIBA proleague which will be screened by NBA TV shortly in the US) has had it for 4 years now.

When the EL started it was basically using NCAA mechanics, and emphasis was on the L getting to the paint on drives to the basket. Allowing for some regional differences in the style of play - Mainly players 20 - 35 years of age, high speed, very physical games (more akin to NBA), I could understand this, but I felt that if the C was more active on the opposite side, then the L would not need to move AS MUCH.

OK Never say never and never say always.........there may be times to get the right angle and therefore the right call, which is what we all want.

But.......looking at NBA games, and we now have a lot of europeans coming to the NBA from these leagues, the L hardly ever goes to the paint.

If we assume that there is a little difficulty in communication and culture, i.e. a crew could be a Serbian, a Spaniard and an Italian, none of whom will have english as there first language, plus the regional/cultural heirachy which may exist, which is the safest framework/simplest framework to adopt in your view.

I know there may not be a right/wrong answer, but am interested in peoples points of view...............?

Regardless of how anyone feels about the calls they make or don't make, the NBA system is the best as far as coverage and angles. You said yourself that the NBA officials do not go to the paint.

Okay - Agreed,

But is it the simplest, does it require more experience? Both of the meachanics and the level of the game?

Okay we should strive for the best, but the system they have now is not what they started with, so what's the best starting point?

The best starting point is going to be a current system. To go back wouldn't be wise because there were mechanics in old systems that did not work for the game.