I worked a fairly large tournament this weekend for 5th and 6th grade girls. One of the games was very close, but play was sloppy and rough. By the time the 4th period came around, many of the girls had been or were in tears. The coaches on one side were very rude, and the same teams fans/parents were very vocal and rude. It affected the kids, and I felt for them. One girl was rattled enough that she scored in the wrong basket, breaking a tie with under two minutes to go. Partner had also called a T on a player late in the game.

An interesting thing happened after the game. Another official came in to give one of us a break. I had just done two games, and my partner did not opt out, so I said I'd sit. When it was apparent there would be a switch, the crowd cheered, but it turned to jeers of "You took the wrong guy out!" when I sat down.

I was later told I did a good job with a bad situation. This coming from game management and some observers of the game from other teams.

In the end, I still felt disappointed for the girls on both sides. I think I did what I could, but still feel a bit guilty for how it played out.

I would like to hear from anyone who has dealt with this type of thing. I may be able to learn something that can help me handle it better next time.

Thanks,

JH

In short, we have all dealt with this sort of thing. If you are new to officiating, congrats on taking on this challenge. I can't tell by your profile so I assume you haven't been doing this very long.

5th/6th grade basketball is instructional, not competitive. Remember fans and most coaches at this level are normally as new to organized sports as their budding athletes. A good ref at this level is just as quick to help the players and parents learn the game as they are to enforce the rules.

Deal with fans only as a last resort. Get the tournament management involved if you think the fan behavior is unsporting. Coach behavior, on the other hand, is your responsibility. Coach behavior is fairly well defined by rule. Brush up on the rules and don't be afraid to enforce them.

And may I suggest that you don't put much stock in what the crowd thinks about you as a referee or you will have a very short career indeed. There's only one person on the floor who's on your team - your partner. Discuss the game with him or her and learn from the mistakes.

Good luck!

Coaches were rude? How many T did you call against them?

Coaches feed the fans and the players. Stop the coaches dead in their tracks and you will have a better game.


[Edited by RecRef on Mar 15th, 2004 at 12:53 PM]

You didn't finish the sentence. It should read, "5th/6th grade basketball is SUPPOSED TO BE instructional, not competitive."


The problem is that they are new to the concept that little Ashley isn't destined to be the next Lisa Leslie. Even if Little Ashley does end up being as big as Leslie, it won't be because her parents were booing the refs and loudly proclaiming that, "My little darlin' is a better player than to miss a shot like that, unless there was a foul!"

Somehow we need to find a way to remind the parents that people who end up being stars on TV, did it through hard work, long hours and a great deal of trial and error. And it's Little Ashley, not the parents, who must have the passion. Doesn't matter how important it is to the parents, if the kid wants to play the violin instead, the FT% just isn't going to go up.

I've seen it so many times, I want to put it on a bumper sticker: Dad, Mom, Coach, as long as you keep blaming the refs, your kid's game ain't gonna get better.

Sometimes the adults take all the fun out of it for the kids. Whether it is a parent or a coach, some (a minority), treat it like the national championship. Most of these kids just want to play. Few will even remember or care who wins. I have lots of personal rules I try to adhere to at this level the most important which is..."never call traveling on the smallest girl on the court as she is about to put up a shot. It might be her only basket of the season". I explain things to them when appropriate, and if a coach gets out of hand, I'll remind them that this is for the kids. If that doesn't work, an important point to remember is the coaches are coaching 5th grade and not varsity for a reason. Don't instigate, but don't let them distract from the kids fun either. If they don't respond to the comment about it being for the kids, maybe they don't need to be there.

Mregor

As a coach, I've used almost the same sentiment(without the "coach" part) to parents of my players at the beginning of the season. My "Letter to Parents" says
"...
2. Please cheer for your child, but refrain from yelling at them. During games, please realize I will be “instructing” them, so please don’t compete with me for their attention. Please be encouraging and cheer for both teams, but don’t yell “instructions”. That’s my job. Thanks.
3. Please don’t yell at the referee’s. Again, that’s my job ;).
4. Please remember that each kid is expected to learn from the coaching staff, the officials, and the games themselves. Supported by you, they have the responsibility to be open for learning. Blaming others for problems is not a way to learn."

Coach, you and a couple of others on this board, and the very few mature coaches around the country with some perspective and some detachment are in a category by yourselves. We've debated on this board before how to re-name you good'uns so that we don't have to always qualify the word "COACH". Some of us call the regular type of coach a howler monkey, and then use the word coach as it was originally intended -- only for the ones who actually do the job as described. This sets a bad precedent, though, since it's definitely NOT okay to use Howler Monkey except amongst our selves. So just always bear in mind that when cloning is accepted and we're incharge of generating coaches, we'll be coming to you for tissue donations!!

Good advice, the only thing I'll add is, find a mentor.

Apparently some disagree, but I see no reason why it cannot be both.

I think competitive is fine, as long as it's instructing how to do competition. Which means, winning is nice but it's certainly not anywhere near most important. At this level, kids need to focus on (insert any skill here) at all, not skills better than so-and-so. Shooting well at the right time is more important than actually hitting. Team work should be top priority, not highest possible final score.

I agree, mostly. But teamwork should, in theory, lead to the highest possible score. In other words, the biggest mule should pull the heaviest wagon. All players are not created equal and the kids know this. Therefore, even at this level, I believe the best shooter should take the most shots, if this can be done within a reasonable framework. I see nothing wrong with having the less skilled players concentrate more on other things, rebounds, setting screens, and defense, defense, defense!

The competitiveness of the game should depend on what kind of ball is being played. If its a rec league, than its mostly instructional, where as if its a rep team, its gonna be competitve. I recently did a game of 5-6 graders, in a rep game, and those girls could've kicked the crap out of the 7-8 graders rec team, and it was a good competivie game. The final score ended up being 30-29., and i had all good coaches.

Point of the post, it can be competitive.

You're right, of course, in theory, and in general I think most coaches probably do try to help each kid develop as what's best for that kid, while still keeping in mind the teamwork aspect. But I've seen quite a few teams where a certain kid just stands in the corner, and then runs to the other end and stands, while the coach's offspring does the fast-break-layup routine over and over again. You know that I mean. Those teams often will win, but at what expense? But I'm not disagreeing with you at all, just pointing out the extreme example, which I see a lot more often than I'd like.

My partner will stop the game in order to teach the kids something about basketball. Whether it be how to set a legal screen or to explain how the 3 second count works.

I could never do this as i don't have the patience for it, but he was a coach for years, and he does a good job at it.

Intrinsic motivation.

The whole point of having kids play rec ball is to keep them active and get them interested in the sport or activity. If they are playing to get better, they're more likely to stay with a sport than if they're playing to win.

Wow, your education is doing you some good. This is a great post -- said wnat I wanted to say, only ten times better.

The beauty of electives . . . .

I have a whole bunch of sports psych info buried somewhere under the pile on my desk (some has stayed in my head, too :p ). Let me know if you ever want to know more.

I am a 6th grade teacher who coaches 7th & 8th grade girls BB. 20 of my female students have gotten together to play in a local YMCA league. Since I am their teacher, and I will also be their coach for the next two years, they have invited me to watch some of their games. I have been impressed by how far they have come in their skills since I saw them play as 5th graders.

Here is the problem...every time they lose, they come to my class on Monday morning and begin to blame the refs. It is constant. They always blame the refs regardless of the score or the skill level of their opponents.

For my part, I have tried to get across to them how misguided this approach is. Whenever they start to complain, I always ask them these four questions:

1. Did you get EVERY rebound?
2. Did you play great defense and limit the other team's shots?
3. Did you run all your plays perfectly?
4. Did you get on the floor for EVERY loose ball?

If the answer to ANY of these questions is no, then this conversation is over because you did not do everything in your power to effect the outcome of the game. I won't hear another word.

At first, they would continue to argue, but as time went on they began to see my point. Now, slowly but surely I am beginning to hear things like, "We didn't think the refs did a good job, but that's not why we lost." I suppose for 6th grade girls, that may be about as good as one can hope for.

They also know that next year when they play for me, we are going to put 100% of our concentration into what WE are doing, and 0% on what the refs are doing.

Now, if I can just convince the parents.

Thanks Coach, good job. Not only in the short run, but also in the long run, both in BB and in Life, You are making a big positive inpact on their lives.

Take it one step farther. Explain that good is a relative term. Ask them if they have ever seen refs that did a good job, and if not, perhaps they have slanted viewpoints and/or unreal expectations. (just like everybody else, no doubt including some of their parents)

Quote:

They also know that next year when they play for me, we are going to put 100% of our concentration into what WE are doing, and 0% on what the refs are doing.

This may be a bit optimistic. :)

Yeah - and look - there's some pigs flying past the window!!!

Yeah - and look - there's some pigs flying past the window!!!

[/B][/QUOTE]
http://www.animationfactory.com/anim...fly_md_blk.gif

tried this w/ parents
 

Had a 3 hr break in a tourney last month and was stuck waaaaay out in the boonies with no other games happening. As comic relief, gave my players and parents part 1 of the 2002 Fed test. Told them all they had to grade out at least 85% if they wanted to yell at refs at any of our games. Prior to this, we fined the parents 50 cents for each outburst and it went into the "Coaches Kitty". Gotta get used to 7-11 coffee instead of Starbucks due to reduced revenues. One of the parents wanted to quit the team so he could continue to assail the officials. Told him to bring a roll of quarters and at least sit with the other team!!!

Happy to report we have good luck so far except we almost got a tech for USC when an official called our opponents for travelling during a spot throw in!! Goes to prove a little knowledge can be very dangerous.

Thanks again to all you guys and gals who wear the stripes



Justacoach

Re: tried this w/ parents
 

I'll never understand teams that complain when a [bad] call goes their way. I want to look at them, say "Okay - I'll change it," and give their opponent either posession or FT's. :rolleyes:

Mark, to expand on the sitch...

In this instance, it was 3 of my players who were involved, and they insisted the ref make the correct call, and when he refused, challenged him to consult with his partner for the correct interpretation. To cap it all off, the ref threatened a T when we delayed putting the ball in play on the throw-in. My player who was inbounding backed up all the way to the wall in the process of releasing the ball, almost causing apoplexia to the administering official.

All this was done with good humor and in the interest of the integrity of the game. Just hope the offending ref does a bit more scrutiny of the rules book.

Sadly, even this is incorrect. He should just put the ball on the floor and start the throw-in count. That makes the ball live. For this reason, your team is not preventing the ball from promptly being made live. Therefore, there is no reason for a delay of game tech.

just my point, it was a complete comedy of errors. What should a coach do when he is in a position to make valid suggestions as to rules applications, for the benefit of the officials and future games, and the officials refuse to acknowledge they may be in error. Have even had a (very) few officials respond with "I don't care what the book says, this is how I am calling it". I don't understand officials who don't want to improve their skills/knowledge.

I do. They are only out there for the $.
If this is not a certified high school league, it is likely that many of the officials are recreational level guys who have never even seen the NFHS rules book.

What you should do is find out who is in charge of assigning/selecting the officials for the tournament and talk to that person. I know that the guy I work for in the summer cares very much what kind of job we do. He thinks that our work reflects on him and he is very particular about who he will put out there.

You may find out that it is some guy just giving his buddies some extra money. :(

I know a bunch of rec guys like that, however, unless the play directly impacts your team, as a coach, I only think it is appropriate to tell the ref after the game. If he cares, then he'll improve his game and look up the rule, if not, what are you gonna do anyhow? The problem with what you did in that situation is that you have put the official in the position of losing his authority because as the benefitting coach, you're telling the ref that he's wrong.

I had a situation last year as a fill in for a MS game (guy's partner didn't show and I was there), when A1's shot was in the air and A2 was fouled by B1 and the basket went. I correctly awarded team A the basket and the ball at a designated spot nearest the foul, but coach A thought I was wrong and continued to belabor that point. I gave him the stop sign and put the ball in play for team A. In this case I was right and changing the call not only would have been an admission in the eyes of all in the gym that the coach knew more about the rules than me, which would have hurt my credibility and my ability to call the rest of the game. Now if there was any other unusual situation, coach A becomes the credible "rule guy" and it hurts my ability to manage the game.