In the 2nd Half of the OSU-Texas Big XII Final, OSU attempted a shot with time running down on the shot clock. A Texas player blocked the shot and it hit the floor OOB on the end line. The whistle blew and then, maybe a half second later, the shot clock horn sounded.
I know that we spent some time a few weeks ago discussing what to do on this play in a HS game that is using a shot clock because it is unclear if the NCAA shot clock rules should apply there, too.
Anyway just to pass along the info to those that read this forum, the ruling in this NCAA game was to put a full 1 second back on the shot clock and give the ball to OSU at the OOB spot.
Unfortunately, the situation led to a mess. OSU inbounded to a player directly under the basket who tossed up a wild shot. As the ball went straight up in the air near the top of the backboard and then started to come down, the shot clock horn sounded, and the trail official, thinking that the shot had no chance of hitting the rim blew the whistle. Well just as he was putting air into that whistle the ball came down on right on the rim and bounced out into the lane where a couple of players batted it a bit.
The official had to eat the inadvertant whistle and go over to the coaches and tell them that they were going to the arrow. To make it worse, the arrow favored OSU. So Texas head coach, Barnes, began a childlike tantrum, pleading that his team was getting the rebound, blah, blah, blah.
At least it was an educational play to see.

I think the officials on the game differ with you about the time. They obviously felt OOB with a full sec. I bet the official was happy to make the PC call right after the inadvertant whistle. Easy PC call to make.

My point is that it doesn't matter how many tenths of that last second from shot clock should still remain. The shot clock doesn't do tenths. So the NCAA rule is to put 1 full second back up, even if the officials believe that only one tenth of a second should have been remaining.

In HS there is solid ground for ruling this play a shot clock violation and going the other way.

PS Yes, I too felt that the official was presented with a chance to send the possession the other direction and he smartly took it. He did not make up that PC foul, but at another point in the game it could have been passed on.

Wow, I really think that PC call wouldn't have been called earlier in the game? Why? I thought it was an easy call. I thought all D1 schools, by rule, were required to have tenths.

They are required to have tenths on the GAME clock, the shot clock only works in full seconds.

Yes, I too felt that the official was presented with a chance to send the possession the other direction and he smartly took it. He did not make up that PC foul, but at another point in the game it could have been passed on.

[/B][/QUOTE]Hmmmmm....

In other words you thought it was a make-up call for the inadvertant whistle.

I didn't.

AAhhh, you got there. :)

Since there are no shot clock rules at all in the FED book, and most states that use a HS shot clock follow the NCAA shot clock rules, what ground would there be for doing it differently in HS? I'm just curious, b/c I guess I've forgotten the original discussion.

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Lag time - whistle, horn - if clock was less than one second, no reset.

Although there are a few (really cool, in my opinion) shot clocks which show tenths for the whole 35.

Does this apply to the NCAA shot clock?

Of course not. I was making the case for what in NFHS rules would let you say not reset the shot clock in this case.

Best scenario, though, is to have a good timer who will actually stop the clock on the whistle. :p

Exactly my point. In MA, we use NCAA rules to govern our shot clock. Since lag time does not apply to the NCAA rules governing the shot clock, we (and any other state using the NCAA shot clock rules) would do exactly the same thing that the guys on TV did.

Of course not[/B][/QUOTE]
Exactly my point. In MA, we use NCAA rules to govern our shot clock. Since lag time does not apply to the NCAA rules governing the shot clock, we (and any other state using the NCAA shot clock rules) would do exactly the same thing that the guys on TV did. [/B][/QUOTE]

You have courtside monitors? Wow, you guys are big time.

Exactly my point. In MA, we use NCAA rules to govern our shot clock. Since lag time does not apply to the NCAA rules governing the shot clock, we (and any other state using the NCAA shot clock rules) would do exactly the same thing that the guys on TV did. [/B][/QUOTE]

You have courtside monitors? Wow, you guys are big time. [/B][/QUOTE]

Not sure what this means but the ncaa rules allow for both the availability of courtside monitors and the lack of courtside monitors.

I think Chuck was saying the HS's use shot clock. And given the same play as the OSU/Texas game, the HS officials would have done the same as the officials in the OSU/Texas game. Which means they would have gone to courtside monitor.

A courtside monitor is *not* allowed under the fed rules -maybe I'm missing something here but I'm still not sure I know what the point is.

The point is that I spoke a little too quickly. We would not do exactly what the guys on TV did, b/c they went to the monitor. And in HS we couldn't do that.

I forgot that they went to the monitor. I should've said that we would've ruled exactly the way the guys on TV did -- even without the monitor. :)

Oh...never mind

http://www.osmond-riba.org/lis/Graphics/litella.jpg

Chuck,
I was referring to the lag time provision in the NFHS rules as Mark Dexter pointed out.
I'm not convinced that you can run a shot clock in an NFHS game exactly like the NCAA does for two reasons.
1. First, I believe that under the current NFHS code all states that are using a shot clock are doing so against NFHS rules. I do not believe that the use of a shot clock falls into any of the 7 listed State Association Adoptions listed on page 68 of the Rules Book.

That objection aside, let's deal with the fact that some states are using it.

2. My second objection is that the states which use the shot clock seem to fail to detail exactly how to run it. I am familiar with the CA rules as they are published in the CBOA (California Basketball Officials Association) handbook, and they give a number of case plays, but not one where the shot clock expires just after a whistle. In the absence of a clear provision, I think we have to fall back on normal NFHS timing rules, and not follow NCAA rules, since this is an NFHS game.

This is true. But since it's completely against FED rules, why can't you do it completely by NCAA rules? That's what we do in MA.

Well, I only work in MA (for HS), so I can only speak for MA. But we are told clearly that all NCAA rules apply for our shot clock. They give us some case plays and we're expected to know the shot clock rules. Most guys don't know them. But that doesn't mean we ignore them if we do know them.

Since there are NO rules whatsoever to govern the shot clock in FED, it seems to me to make more sense to use the rules that were made expressly for the shot clock; viz, the NCAA rules.

Chuck,
I like both of your points, and as long as your state assocition clearly puts it in writing that ALL aspects of the shot clock should be governed by NCAA rules it is perfectly fine with me. Actually, I believe that is the intelligent way to do it. But what would you do if your state didn't specify this?

I should also state that I've worked in MD with a shot clock in girls only and their rules were quite vague.