Fun with Correctable Errors

[BoomerSooner]

This was a great game with an exciting but unfortunate ending (wanted to post earlier, but couldn't as we were requested not to comment or discuss this game until the commitee came out with a formal explanation to both schools).

Boys HS Varsity, midway 4th quarter B (home) is ahead by 2 and fouls A1 for the 7th team foul. Scoreboard only shows 6 fouls and the official scorekeeper does not alert us that A should be shooting the bonus. We give the ball to A for a throw-in, ball inbounded and A2 promptly hits a 3pt shot.

Immediatly B jumps off the bench screaming for a TO and I grant it. While reporting I can tell something is going on because he is already screaming at the official scorer (a fellow teacher). I calm him down at which point he tells me it should have been the bonus and he wants the bucket cancelled and A should shoot the bonus.

Well unfortunatly for B, this is still a correctable error as the ball hasn't been made live yet for a second time. We give A1 his bonus shots, he makes both, 5pt play, and we give the ball to B under the basket with the baseline. B's coach is livid, team unravels, fall way behind only to catch up in the closing seconds but finally lose by 3 pts. Rough way to lose.

Pretty sure this is how it should have gone...of course if someone thinks otherwise, please let me know.

[footlocker]

No this is not how it should have gone. Shouldn't have been in that situation. May have been a correctable error but by definition it was still an error. You'll have to ask yourself what you could have done differently to avoid such an ugly situation.

Otherwise, it looks like you handled the situation correctly after you were already mixed up in it.

[BoomerSooner]

I know we shouldn't have been in the situation and I sure wish we hadn't been. I wasn't the calling on the original foul and besides that the scorer/timekeeper didn't provide us with the necessary information. I'm not in a habit of stopping every foul and double checking the book.

[Nevadaref]

I will wait until the foul goes up on the board before I put the ball back in play. If one of my partners is administering, I watch for the foul to go up, and if it doesn't then I stop the game at the next dead ball and fix it right away.
This prevents the situation you were in.
I also take a quick glance at the board after every basket.


Also the home coach is not very smart. All he had to do was take his TO before the throw-in or stay totally quiet and let the game continue. He hurt his own team by not knowing the rules. I hope that is what your local committee told this yahoo.

[Junker]

Iowa had a situation like this in the first round of their tournaments. Team A had lost only twice or so all year (I'm not positive about their record, but they are good) , they are up 1 and one of their people is running the scoreboard. With 7.8 seconds left A fouls B thinking they have one more foul to give because the scoreboard said so. When the official reports, the official scorer informs the official that it should be the bonus. B hits both shots and A goes home for the season. Terrible way to end a season.

[N_Stripes]

I am a little surprised that these teams are not keeping books at their own benches. Or maybe they are and not catching the scorers mistakes before the ball becomes live.

[Bart Tyson]

I wasn't the calling on the original foul[/B]

Moot point, All three officials are responsible.

and besides that the scorer/timekeeper didn't provide us with the necessary information. I'm not in a habit of stopping every foul and double checking the book. [/B]

You don't have to check the book, however, it is important to be aware of the fouls when it gets to 5 and 6 fouls.

Having said this, we all have been there, done that. Just learn from it and I'm sure you won't let it happen again.

[icallfouls]

Welcome to my opinion on this.

As far as your not being the calling official. That is not the issue. If your partner(s) make a call, no call, ruling, or whatever, you are 'the calling officialS.' This is something that aggrivates me no end. When its a great game and the coaches love us, the words used by referees are 'we' and 'I'. When things go haywire, it is 'my partner', or 'the calling official' that is to be blamed. If you have information or knowledge, it is incumbent on you to say something.

Additionally, the table is part of our crew. I always let the table know this during pre-game so that communication breakdowns like this do not occur. If we need their assistance, we all have to be on the same page.

[Camron Rust]

Sounds like it was done right. You can ignore what some have said about you shouldn't have been there. No matter what you do, there will be a scorer that messes up. You can't and shouldn't do thier job for them. You can check with them, ask if it's correct but that's about it.

There's a reaons that each team is supposed to have a scorer at the table plus the timer. With 3 people recording the scores and fouls (2 if the board doesn't show them), the coach can only blame the scorer and timer (which in this case are his own staff). If they were the visitors, he still had his own scorer who should have been checking with the other scorer and timer after every bucket and foul.

We can do a lot to prevent correctable errors but when the table gives us bad info, there's not much else we can do. I do try to verify that the foul count on the board increments on each foul but if the board doesn't show fouls, you've got to trust that the scorers are doing thier jobs.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
Sounds like it was done right. You can ignore what some have said about you shouldn't have been there. No matter what you do, there will be a scorer that messes up. You can't and shouldn't do thier job for them. You can check with them, ask if it's correct but that's about it.

There's a reaons that each team is supposed to have a scorer at the table plus the timer. With 3 people recording the scores and fouls (2 if the board doesn't show them), the coach can only blame the scorer and timer (which in this case are his own staff). If they were the visitors, he still had his own scorer who should have been checking with the other scorer and timer after every bucket and foul.

We can do a lot to prevent correctable errors but when the table gives us bad info, there's not much else we can do. I do try to verify that the foul count on the board increments on each foul but if the board doesn't show fouls, you've got to trust that the scorers are doing thier jobs.

I think those who are blaming the on-floor officials are being a bit harsh. Correctable errors can and do happen, and it was handled by rule. Of course, you may have to serve out a 3-game suspension depending on what league you work.

One thing that I do is notify my partner(s) when we hit 6 team fouls. I'll walk up and tell them -- shooting on the next one and signal with my index and pinky fingers.

Of course, what if the foul missed was foul number 3 in the half and the board actually says 5 when the 7th foul was committed? We aren't going to catch all of those and those that think they will are deluding themselves. We try to make sure the boards increment, but we're not going to catch all of those, either.

Like Camron said, where was everybody else? Two books, two benches, and a scorer/timer and NOBODY catches it? Hey, let's blame the refs.

--Rich

[Forksref]

I think it should be required to have the home and visiting scorekeepers sit next to each other and compare notes as the game goes on.

When I was coaching, I had this situation: My best player was whistled for her 3rd foul. My asst coach, our scorekeeper, and our statistician, who all 3 who work independently of each other, all had her for only 1 foul. There was no announcer and they weren't putting fouls on the board.

This is a case where two scorekeepers sitting beside each other would have avoided the problem. I think this should be a requirement.

I have kept score at places where this was done and we compared notes all game long and it went fine.

[BoomerSooner]

The biggest problem is the coach that got the raw end of the deal (the home coach admitted that he knew it was the 7th foul), he just didn't say anything until he thought it would benefit his team. I'm sure if A had turned it over, then B's coach would have kept his mouth shut. The scoretable had no idea where the mistake was made. The official scorer did take some of the blame as he said he was "just zoned out" and hadn't checked the board to make sure his numbers matched with the board.

[gazou]

Something's wrong here. Is it really possible to have a 5 point play?

I went back to my FIBA case book and found a similar situation. The fact that coach B ask for a time out is not important. In this case, since team A got the ball anyway and scored is what matters. In that case we ignore the mistake and continue on. So the three point basket is good and we do not give team A the two shots for the bonus.

This is not a correctable error.

Unless FIBA ans NFHS have different interpretation on this.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by gazou

This is not a correctable error.

Unless FIBA ans NFHS have different interpretation on this.

Yes,FIBA,and NFHS/NCAA not only have different interpretations on this rule, but they have different interpretations on most rules. Basically, the NFHS and FIBA rule books are completely different.