Question:

When reporting number of offender, do you use front of one hand to designate first digit, followed by back of same hand for second digit?

That would be the proper mechanics for HS ball. The use of both hands, in which the right hand is the tens and left hand is the ones, is used at the college level. Using one hand, the front for the tens and back for ones, ensures the scorer understands your comunication. (especially when the scorer is a student volunteer) Keep it simple.

KEEP IT SIMPLE AND CLEAR
 

I also verbalize as I am demonstrating the call. For example,
"Blue (pointing in direction of Blue Bench),
two (two fingers, palm facing scorer)
five (five fingers, palm facing me)
Pushing (Push signal)

Seems to work fine....

That's not the proper mechanic, guys. You should never flip your hand when indicating the number. If you ever go to a camp, they will tell you in a NY minute that you should not flip your hand. Signal the first number, close the hand, and open it to signal the second number.

I agree with Tony -- don't flip the hand.

Also, someone mentioned that the use of two hands is proper in college -- this is also not true. The mechanic for reporting the number is the same as in HS (although the location on the floor may be different).

I stand corrected.

Most of the officials in my local use the method of flipping the hand. I see some who do a lot of higer level ball (JUCO NAIA etc) using the 2-handed reporting, which I knew was not the proper mechanic for HS.

I see a lot of officials use the hand flip - do they give a reason in camp why this is not acceptable?

Officials who flip their hand tend to develop the bad habit of doing it quickly. Closing the hand after signaling the first number actually slows the official down. They seem to want a discernible fist between numbers. There may be other reasons that I'm not aware of.

I've started verbalizing the number this year as opposed to the digits. In other words, 42 is "forty-two," not "four, two." Studies have supposedly shown that it's easier for the scorer to understand. Go figure!

I've started verbalizing the number this year as opposed to the digits. In other words, 42 is "forty-two," not "four, two." Studies have supposedly shown that it's easier for the scorer to understand. Go figure!

Here's the reason to call the color first, then the number as forty-two, not four two. The scorer has two sides to his book, each side representing a color. We give the color first, because the first thing a scorer wants to know is which side of the book he will be marking. Then, if you give just the first digit of a two digit number, followed by the second digit separately, he may mark the foul down for a player who has only that first digit in haste. If the number is forty-two and you say four two, he may give the foul to number four and not pay attention to the second digit. If you say forty-two, as soon as you say forty, he is more likely not to give the foul to anyone other than forty-two, even though a team may have a number forty, because you say the forty-two without a pause, while you pause between numbers in saying four two. This is especially true with numbers from 10 through 15 (except maybe 14, since it starts with the four sound).

At least that's what I was told at a camp.

Forty-Two
 

I'm with BktBallRef and Padgett,
One hand, Palm toward table, shoulder height, near front of body.
Forty-Two, not single digits.

mick

When reporting fouls to the table, i agree there should be no hand flipping. Number, closed fist then the next number. I also agree the the number 42 should be reported verbally as 42, not 4...2. As far as pointing to the team bench before reporting the foul, i say a big NO!!! That is not part of the mechanics of foul reporting! As far as visualing giving the number, i always try to signal outside the plain of my body. I am right handed, so when i report my right arm is bent at the elbow in a 90 degree angle. The people at the table have a much easier time seeing this signal as opposed to my hand in front of my torso. The black and white stripes sometimes make it difficult to see my hand signal.
Any thoughts on this????
May everyone have a joyous and meaningful holiday!!
Mikeref

mikered,

Years ago, the mechanic was to point to the offending bench when reporting a foul. Some older officials still do it.

Tony

both hands
 

mikeref,
If you can, try to use both hands the way you described.
One for the bench on the right, which is what you are doing, and one for the bench on the left, with your left hand.
By the way. I agree with your hand placement to the side, what I should have said instead of "near front of body", was outside the shoulder and slightly forward of the torso and then followed it with everything you said except the part about being one-handed.

If I am in a very loud gym, I will point to the bench. This is just a way to prevent any miss communication with the book. It might not be in the book, but when the situation is right, it helps.

Right, Brian.
We do what we have to do at the time. ;)
mick

my 2 cents
 

* use two hands when you get to the NBA.

* flipping is for the bird(s)

Seriously:

* If you need to point to the bench to clarify your call, then you may not be clear enough at the spot of the foul. Either bird-dog, or use your voice and mechanics more assertively.

* Get to a spot in the world-famous "reporting area" where you can effectively communicate to the scorer (the 3rd member of your crew!)

Few Points from the Table
 

(1) Hopefully (unfortunately, this is a BIG hopefully), you have scorers who have a pretty good idea who fouled, but actually listen to the R or U before writing anything down.

(2) Personally, I prefer color, whole #, then digits while flashing fingers (either flipping or closing hand between).
Ex: Red, 31, 3-1.

(3) Similar to #1, hopefully you also have good eye contact with the scorers (or maybe I should say the scorers have good eye contact with the officials), and they give a little nod once everything is understood.

Getting the message through...
 

Speaking now as a grizzled "Keeper of the Book," -- and not as a floor official -- I give high marks to BktBallRef, Padgett, mikeref, and mick for their comments regarding communication with the scorekeeper.

Specifically, closing the hand between numbers, combined with a forceful voice, and a verbalization of "forty-two" rather than (or in addition to) "four - two" are all superb aids to clarity.

Putting the hand signal just outside and slightly in front of the torso is another excellent technique. It is much more difficult for me to discern the number of fingers being held up if the hand is in front of the stripes. (And not just because by eyes aren't as good as they used to be


Last week, an official of the old school pointed to the offender's bench while stating the color as he reported the foul. Threw me off a moment as I hadn't seen that in some years. And even though it's no longer part of the recommended mechanics (too accusatory?), it certainly left no doubt as to which team the offender played for.

Sven

Never point to the bench.
As Ed Cartotto, IAABO Visualization Committee Head, and longtime Big East offical stated, "everyone in the gym knows what team the foul is on and now the official wants to point to the bench, many times while the coach is standing right in the front of the bench, and tell everyone again? Another way to create tension between coaches and officials."
Many coaches go ballistic when this happens.
Use the color first, then the number. The scorers and timers understand English!

Maybe in the Big East Conference everybody does, but NOT in Jr Hi and Freshman. I can't tell you how many times I bird-dog, tell the number and color at the spot, then repeat the whole spiel with perfect (okay, acceptable!) mechanics, and then get to the in-bounds spot and have the wrong color player there. When the coach catches on he shouts, "What?!?!? What?!?!? That was not an offensive foul.." and so on. Yes coach, I have shouted gold three times now and you didn't hear any of them? Then the player, ME/?!?! That foul was on me?!?!? Merciful Heavens, girl, learn to listen.
I'm not saying I point at the bench when I report or even that we should, because the reason these folks are so surprised at not getting the ball back, is because they weren't paying attention.
I'm just pointing out that it's not true that everyone always knows who the foul is on.

Hmmm, might be because you're not giving the preliminary
indications properly at the foul spot? Do you verbalize
the color and number of the fouler, point the ball direction
and throw-in spot? Do you do this clearly & slowly? If not
then this could explan the trouble you seem to be having.
Just a suggestion.

-Dan

What? You mean the first player to get there doesn't get to in-bound the ball?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

Hmmm, might be because you're not giving the preliminary indications properly at the foul spot? Do you verbalize the color and number of the fouler, point the ball direction and throw-in spot? Do you do this clearly & slowly?

Well, I think sometimes this is a problem for me, but I've been doing better on it this season. These younger kids, and their coaches, do not always pay attention, though and sometimes the best mechanics in the world don't get through. I think a lot of times the players don't know their own numbers, so when I say it, it doesn't sink in. Also, in a noisy gym shouting the color doesn't always get through. I know there are times when I can't understand what my partner is saying...

Must be one of those NBA rules that has trickled-down.