Stay in your area

[caref]

84 games this year and not a signal problem. Only one "T" in JV game, no intentional fouls, no ejections,no problems with partners, no parents coming onto the floor to assault me and no fights among players and then......

Boys varsity game last night. I have been moving up the past few years and getting a better schedule. Working with a more experienced partner. I'm the trail, partner the lead opposite side. My side, three point attempt near baseline. I am looking straight at it and signal 3 attempt and the successful 3 point shot as I am moving down the court. Whistle, partner says a 2, foot was on the line. We come together I I say I had it and it was a 3. He did not want to believe it and insisted. I said no it was a 3 and I was sure. Game stopped for over 30 seconds why we discussed this. Unbelievable.

What in the devil was he looking over there for He was 35 feet away and not supposed to be even looking there. I sensed he felt I was going to give in, but I held my ground and went with the correct call. Coach applauding and saying good call.

Of course the next time down the coach wanted a foul on a play and didn't get it and gives me "that terrible." or something to that extent.

Anybody have a similiar scenario this year?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by caref
84 games this year and not a signal problem. Only one "T" in JV game, no intentional fouls, no ejections,no problems with partners, no parents coming onto the floor to assault me and no fights among players and then......

Boys varsity game last night. I have been moving up the past few years and getting a better schedule. Working with a more experienced partner. I'm the trail, partner the lead opposite side. My side, three point attempt near baseline. I am looking straight at it and signal 3 attempt and the successful 3 point shot as I am moving down the court. Whistle, partner says a 2, foot was on the line. We come together I I say I had it and it was a 3. He did not want to believe it and insisted. I said no it was a 3 and I was sure. Game stopped for over 30 seconds why we discussed this. Unbelievable.

What in the devil was he looking over there for He was 35 feet away and not supposed to be even looking there. I sensed he felt I was going to give in, but I held my ground and went with the correct call. Coach applauding and saying good call.

Of course the next time down the coach wanted a foul on a play and didn't get it and gives me "that terrible." or something to that extent.

Anybody have a similiar scenario this year?

Why yes, come to think of it I did have a similar situation. I was T and I signaled a 3 point shot good. My partner blew the whistle, pointed at the line, said "2 points" and put up 2 fingers. At the very next dead ball I told him EXACTLY what I thought of his behavior:

"Thanks for the help partner! I owe ya one!"

[tomegun]

In the spirit of fighting sarcasm with sarcasm.

Originally posted by Dan_ref
["Thanks for the help partner! I owe ya one!"

and in the future I will do a better job of officiating my primary myself!

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by tomegun
In the spirit of fighting sarcasm with sarcasm.

and in the future I will do a better job of officiating my primary myself!

It aint sarcasm, it aint a fight, and I never, ever turn down help from a partner.

[footlocker]

I'm Trail and my partner at lead. Free throw. I blow the whistle when it did not hit rim (second shot). Partner stands there and yells, "no, it hit." I wanted to choke him. We got through it.

I don't overrule my partners in thier area. If I am that sure and think that my partner made a choice (i.e. had to call it one way or another) and that the call is wrong and going to affect the game, I'll hit my whistle and come to him. Ask if he needs any help on that call. He knows I'll only do that if I am absolutely sure. Otherwise, he'll tell me no and stick with his call or take my advise. Either way, it's his call (ref or ump, makes no difference to us.)

In our games (regular partner), we do not overrule. Primary either changes the call himself (with his new information) or keeps it. No over ruling.

[tomegun]

One of my friends from Las Vegas hasn't had a chance to see a tape of his games so I taped his game on Saturday (I'll just say one of the teams was and still is undefeated) and broke down the film for him. The stats on his calls, double fouls and the like were pretty good for a crew. Out west efforts are being made to do what Hank Nichols wants. This is a slow process but it is on the subject of this thread.
Let me create two verbs so I can save some typing:

GIR - get it right (what some members want)
DIR - do it right

So, with a 3-person crew if there are plays and something is missed some say we should GIR which entails looking out of the primary. In order to GIR in most of these situations you had to be focusing out of your primary to see the whole play. A lot of what Mr. Nichols wants is cleaning up the post so if the L is GIR who is watching his primary? Nobody, and off-ball coverage suffers and fouls are missed. The end result is 3 people are getting paid to do the job that two people can do and two people can probably do it better since there is a void on the court where someone's eyes should be. This puts our whole 3-person initiative for high school games in jeopardy and is the reason why some states are still able to say "we don't have the money." If it is proven and used to cover the court better everyone will adopt it sooner or later.
Now let's look at the same play if we DIR. By DIR the primary gets into the proper position to see the plays in the primary and the L, C or T that was doubling the coverage in this primary can DIR and watch their primary. Additional plays can be picked up and a game could go so much smoother. Someone long ago came up with an additional whistle. Even before that someone came up with areas of primary coverage. This was done to better the officiating and DIR. If we train and our goal is to GIR then the games will be helter skelter. If we train to DIR our percentages will be much higher. There are times when we have to GIR. If we DIR those times should decrease significantly.

[Bart Tyson]

tomegun, while it was a little tough to follow, I do agree 100%. caref, It is too bad your partner choose to make a bad call. However, I think it could have been handled differently. And yes, by handling it the way I'm about to suggest you won't be getting it right. If my partner whistles and says its a two, then it will be a two. I will then talk about it after the game. The same as an oob call, if my partner comes to me, i'm not even going to discuss it, we are going the other way. Put the ball in play.

[BigGref]

I agree

If my partner comes up to me and says he has something different, I usually just ask what he saw, if it's concievable, go with the change; talk about it after the game.

[SMEngmann]

One thing that I've noticed as a young official that has annoyed me particularly this season as I have gotten a much better schedule is that some of the seasoned vets tend to come well out of their primary. I've seen vets signal three-pointers as the lead that were shot at the top of the key. As tomegun suggests, all officials, particularly need to trust their partner to make calls. Someone who strays out of his coverage area and makes calls such as three pointers is doing the game a disservice and has a higher propensity of botching the call. That being said, I agree with the earlier post that once the partner blew his whistle and said two points, you have to go with his call. In his mind, clearly, there was a foot on the line. Save yourself the argument and get on his about the call at halftime.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by tomegun

Let me create two verbs so I can save some typing:

GIR - get it right (what some members want)
DIR - do it right

If you get it right then the crew is doing it right, by definition.

Doing it right does not mean the crew is getting it right.

I still find it incredible that some of us do not believe our only goal as a crew is to get the calls right.

Oh well... :shrug:

[tomegun]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

If you get it right then the crew is doing it right, by definition.

Doing it right does not mean the crew is getting it right.

I still find it incredible that some of us do not believe our only goal as a crew is to get the calls right.

Oh well... :shrug:

How do you know you are really getting it right? You just looked out of your primary. Who knows what's going on there! :shrug:

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by tomegun

How do you know you are really getting it right? You just looked out of your primary. Who knows what's going on there! :shrug:

Maybe you can't manage what's going on in your area. Some of us don't have too much of a problem with this. But that's besides the point. How do you know you're really DOING it right? I mean, that is your goal, aint it?

So, you focus on looking good, the rest of us will focus on being good.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
[BMaybe you can't manage what's going on in your area. Some of us don't have too much of a problem with this. But that's besides the point. How do you know you're really DOING it right? I mean, that is your goal, aint it?

So, you focus on looking good, the rest of us will focus on being good. [/B]

Who ever said anything about looking good? I thought we were talking about doing it right vs. getting it right. I will say it again, getting it right is a direct result of doing it right in the first place. I don't think the same can be said of your methods of getting it right because you don't know what is going on in your primary if you are looking at someone else's primary. Your practice of just getting it right is mechanically and theoretically wrong. Things will always happen that force us to deviate from the norm. I repeat, things will always happen that force us to deviate from the norm. That does not mean that we go in saying we are going to be looking all over the place. If you are going to be looking at the ball the whole game then you might as well be in the stands. If you are so worried about getting it right then the crew concept should come into play and you should be concerned about the whole game which is why we are supposed to have 2 or 3 sets of eyes on the court. You haven't mentioned off-ball, illegal screens, non basketball plays, rough play in the post or the like and these are always points of emphasis due to watching the ball and catching the second foul or not catching the foul at all. Catching action away from the ball is why we are moving towards 3 people at all levels. If you constantly have a problem with your partner missing routine plays then you need to discuss that with your partner. If you are the one routinely missing simple plays then you need to have someone talk to you. By you I mean officials in general myself included. If we can't cover our areas on routine plays then we need to go back to the drawing board.

As far as game management and looking good. Looking good should be taken care of off the court if that is a concern for an official. Meaning physical conditioning, uniform and mechanics. Management is also something that should begin off the court and carry on through to the end of the game. Dan, I don't have to worry about looking good on the court. I take care of that off the court. I'm not saying I'm an adonis or anything. I work on that stuff in the off-season and I hope to continue to improve. As far as management, I work in a league that doesn't afford me the luxury or mis-managing a game and looking all over the court. If you do work in a league where you can continue to stray then fine. I can't and I'm glad about it. The high school league I work in is better than the JC league I work in and it is probably better than most JC leagues in the country. We can't look around.

[Bart Tyson]

As far as management, I work in a league that doesn't afford me the luxury or mis-managing a game and looking all over the court. We can't look around. [/B]

ditto