True, if long, sitch from very recent game:

I'm L, ball's in T's area. A1 passes into my area but it misses everything (so I thought) & goes OOB. As I point down court my partner comes to me and tells me about the tip...OK...since I was watching my own particular 5 sq ft of the court like a hawk I missed it. I nod, give the little tip signal (ACK!!!! unauthorized mechanic!!!) tweet & point the other way. Now because of a recent thread here I'm wondering "why the hell was he ball watching? who was watching HIS primary while he was watching the ball? who would have seen the elbow the passer gave the defender because he was not minding his own damn business???!!!" And apparently half the crowd agrees - "HEY REF!!! THAT AINT HIS CALL, IT'S YOUR CALL!!!! YOU CAN'T LET HIM TAKE THAT CALL FROM YOU!!!! YOU GOTTA STAY WITH YOUR OWN CALL!!!!!" Now because my partner could not mind his own business and stay in his primary I am getting chewed out by a bunch of fans, fans who apparently agree with some who post here. And at the very next dead ball I went to my partner & told him exactly what I thought of his sticking HIS nose into MY area about a call I made on MY line -

"Thanks pard, we looked good, we got it right and you saved my @ss. I owe ya one."

OK, I'll bite. Are you trying to be funny? I'm one of "those people" and the topic had to do with ball watching/calling fouls in someone's primary right in front of them. It was not about a situation like you mention. I will give you an example.
I had a game last night on a military installation so it was men playing. A player passes almost the length of the court and gets hit on his arm. I follow the ball down the court and watch the two on one. He asks about getting fouled on the pass. We have a time out the next play and I explain to him that I'm not going to call that foul as long as the ball gets to where he intended for it to go. In this case it was a two on one break on the other end which led to a score for his team. This can only be done in some instances but the point is I had to see where the ball was going.
If I'm watching my primary and someone passes out of it and you are watching your primary and the ball is thrown out of bounds, who will know how it got out if neither of us follows the ball until it settles? Or, how many of us have seen the ball go out of bounds using our peripheral vision? I know what you're getting at and it isn't the same.

huh?

Ball was passed from T. Why wouldn't he see the tip? Where did he say it was tipped? from the pass or at the catch?

Footlocker, can you get me a discount?

Turns out the ball was tipped in my area much nearer the catch than the pass.

He would not have seen the tip if he stayed with the passer and stayed in his primary.

Yes you are, although I didn't have you in mind when this play happened or as I was posting it.

And apparently half the crowd agrees - "HEY REF!!! THAT AINT HIS CALL, IT'S YOUR CALL!!!! YOU CAN'T LET HIM TAKE THAT CALL FROM YOU!!!! YOU GOTTA STAY WITH YOUR OWN CALL!!!!!"

I was wondering if anyone yelled out "Great call. You guys deserve credit for getting the call right, way to go!!!"

................they never do..........................

When the ball is in transition from one area to another, it is important that the official in the originating area not give it up until the official in the destination area has picked it up. Often, there will be a brief overlap on the "handoff". I give my partners a moment to shift their focus to the ball before I give it up. Why? I've been bitten a couple of times by giving it up when it crossed the "line" only to have a train wreck occur an not have either of us know who was at fault.

It's better to get it right than wrong. I'd say the "T' helped you out and you made the right call.

Why are you more worried about where his eyes were than if the call was right?

Forget the fans. They’re going to yell because they thought they got away with one. Then it was fixed.

How do you know he didn't catch the tip with his peripheral? All I know is, foremost I want to get the call right. And you did. The better question might be more objective and less ego oriented: What is a good way to cover the pass from T to L.

I have always heard that the Lead takes the pass and the Trail stays with the pass/crash.

(not trying to pick on anyone, but let’s get the call right and figure out a way mechanically to have better coverage next time.)

Footlocker,

Great response, could not agree with you more. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned "ego"

Footlocker, lighten up... a month-and-a-half, over 100 posts, and you still haven't figured out Dan's sense of humor??? Come on...he wasn't that upset about it, and he knows the partner helped them get it right...he's venting and having some fun doing it...try to remember, Dan's a Yankees fan - that will explain a lot...

It seems many times the crew forgets they are a "team" and should quit worring about the call as long as they get it right.

Six eyes are better than two!

Yeah,so don't question Dan!!

Being a Yankees' fan means never having to say you're wrong.

Btw, Rocky is a Mariners' fan. Which means that he's basically the same as Chuck, only maybe just a teeny-weeny bit smarter.

C'mon man, you ain't helping! Now mind your own business! :p

BTW, check this out:

http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/...021704_000.jpg

Top Ten Good Things About Being A New York Yankee presented by George Steinbrenner


10. "With the player discount, a hot dog at Yankee Stadium is now only $50" (ed: they're gonna reduce the price??!)

9. "Your bobble-head doll is a legal form of identification in New York State"

8. "With me there's very little pressure to win"

7. "Hideki Matsui can teach you to sing in Japanese"

6. "After every game, Yogi Berra gives you a complimentary foot massage"

5. "Our spring training facility is near a Hooters"

4. "Take it from the guy signing the checks -- some of the players do OK for themselves"

3. "Pinstripes make your butt look slimmer"

2. "You get to meet all of Derek Jeter's girlfriends"

1. "You think this A-Rod deal is good? We're about to sign TY Cobb"

Especially working 2 whistles

http://www.collectmad.com/collectibles/decal4.jpg

What, me worry?

Oh and btw, the object is to position yourself such that the pass, the passer & his defender are all in your field of view. If it happens you can't do this screw the pass and stay with the passer.

5. "Our spring training facility is near a Hooters"

[/B][/QUOTE]There's a Hooters near EVERY spring training facility. I think that it's in the union contract somewhere that there has to be one within 2 miles.

There's a Hooters near EVERY spring training facility. I think that it's in the union contract somewhere that there has to be one within 2 miles. [/B][/QUOTE]

Then maybe you know what a Hooters is. I didn't get this one...what is that like a library or something?

Then maybe you know what a Hooters is. I didn't get this one...what is that like a library or something?

[/B][/QUOTE]Think owls, my son.

Owls with big gabonzas!

Ok, I get it and I can play along...

Did you hear that the Post Office just recalled their latest stamps? They had pictures of Yankees players on them ...people couldn't figure out which side to spit on.

Dan_Ref -- I hope you're kidding.....The philosophy of every official should include the idea of getting the call right! By staying in your own primary and never making a call or helping a partner in theirs, you end up having a conversation with a coach like this: "Coach, you're right that was a foul on them/the ball did go off of them, but I'm not going to call that. My partner told me in our pre-game not to ever call anything in his area. Sorry." Coaches do not tend to react well to that line of thinking.

What do Yankees fans use for birth control?

-Their personalities.

I'm only kidding. I have a yankee hat on my dashboard and a yankees bumpersticker. Of course, that is just so that I can park in the handicapped spaces.

Actually, last time I saw the yankees play it was the single best game I have ever attended. I doubt anything will ever match up to that. (game 7 of World Series vs. Diamondbacks)

Quick Quote

Casey Stangle once went to the mound to pull his pitcher.
"I'm not tired," the pitcher said.
"Well, the outfielders are." Casey replied.

-I love that.

Ok, baseball stuff aside. Based on what was written (and I'm not always talented at deciphering sense of humor), I stand behind what I said. Get the call right and improve mechanically.

Can't really expect much more from somebody who's a fan of the Netherlands soccer team.

Go Orange! :D

Mr Pea,

I believe as you start to work your way through the many threads on this board you'll find that not everyone agrees with you (and me) that our only job is to get it right. In fact, I'm more than a little discouraged by how many people are fond of saying (in so many words) "Yeah but who was watching YOUR primary while you were helping your partner get it right".

Anyway...nice to meet ya.

BTW Footlocker, cute jokes. Got any that are not 30 years old? ;)

Ok Dan, now you're just being downright nasty...why, if the M's still had A-Rod and Randy Johnson, and all the other guys we've let go who end up MVP's and All-Stars for someone else - why then we...well, we...well, we might have won at least one World Series in our existence...but that's still no reason to put the M's down...well, maybe it is...but at least JR says I'm a teensy-weensy bit smarter than Chuck!! That's something at least...

3 whistle crew, Iam lead. nothing in my primary. So I peek into the centers primary and I see something he/she missed. Iam calling it, and it the center tells me to stay out of his/her area,my reply to them is to do a better job in your area. There is nothing more fustrating than to watch a 3 whislte crew miss calls because noboby wants to call in their partners are

And what actually happens is that you catch the tail-end of something that the C was watching the entire time and decided to pass on, but you come across real strong and call some ticky-tack thing in front of C and now your crew integrity is shot to hell - all because you couldn't stay in your primary...hope it was worth it.

rockyroad
 

rocky, are you really Millay or Morrell, my guess is the former

Ok, I've stayed out of this b/c I basically agree with Dan's point. Get it right. But I also agree with Rocky, in that tape consistently shows that when we call out of our primary, the accuracy of our calls goes down dramatically.

That's why we got a 3rd set of eyes at the college level -- to make the areas of responsibility smaller, so we can concentrate more on the stuff that's close to us, rather than reaching across the lane. Reaching across the lane usually equals reduced accuracy.

So. . . help out on the stuff that you're supposed to help out on. The C can help the L on a ball that goes OOB on the C side of the lane. The C can reach for a call in front of the L when the offensive player spins into the lane (and away from the L). The T can help out on closely-guarded counts on the C side of court, if there's too many players over there. The L can help out with a 3-point shot in his/her corner if the post play is clear. The T can help catch the little shuffle-step travel that's right in front of the L.

There are things that we can and should help out on. But if you're the L, and you come all the way across the lane to call an off-ball foul in front of the C. . . well, that's not a good thing. Your crew will probably have a problem with it, and an observer will definitely have a problem with it.

My two cents. Take it or leave it.

What ever happened to what we call the gray area? You may have your primary but you also have the weak side also.

R.R. What happens when a player is driving in, who takes the player, the C whom direction the player was coming from or as in your case the L. All of the officials I work with it is the C responsibility to follow that player untill his/her attempt is complete.

C takes it all the way to the hole...and to icallfouls - Morrell would never be on this board with Yankees fans...so who are you???

rockyroad
 

lets just say i know batman


[Edited by icallfouls on Feb 20th, 2004 at 04:56 PM]

You are exactly correct.
 

No morrells on this board.
We have Dan for attestation.

I've got my guess...we spoke just two days ago...I think. ;)

Primary
 

If I am going to call something out of my primary I usually look at 2 things...

1. "If it is light-gray to gray, let it make Hay!":D
2. "If it is really dark gray, Sell, Sell, Sell!"

Congratulations on you guys getting the call right. That is what is most important.

I have no problem with being corrected by my partner when I am screened, etc.

Isn't our priority to get the call right?

Re: rockyroad
 

Ouch...that's one we can keep to ourselves, thanks! :) So fess up, now, give me some hints as to who you are...

Had a similar sitch last night in a girls game. I was trail and the opposition was pressing at half court. The offensive player dribbles through two girls who try to cut her off. My pard calls a reach on one of the girls as she is stepping through the two defenders. The coach yells - "He can't call that from there, he is twenty feet away." I tell him "That is why there is two of us coach." He still didn't agree.

As one who has argued for getting it right, I applaud the way the situation was handled--exactly right IMO.

I had one a couple of weeks back. Soph girls, working with a very weak partner. I'm L, shot goes up from his primary, and goes oob without hitting iron. I didn't see anybody touch it from the time I caught it out of the corner of my eye. I look at my partner...nothing. I signal going "that way." Shooting team goes nuts about it being tipped. I go to my partner again and ask him if it was tipped. His answer, "I don't know." So, we're going "that way."

Was it tipped? Given the reaction, almost certainly. Give my partner the benefit of the doubt, assume he was rigorously refereeing his primary. Assume that he would never even look outside his primary, let alone make a call outside it. Assume that his mechanics were perfect and that it was just one of those things. We still looked like clueless idiots. And got it wrong.

Back In The Saddle,
You didn't know.
You looked for help.
Your partner gave you nothing.
Looks like a jump.
mick

Been there, done that, didn't like it,
but that is the way is shakes out sometimes.

There's a Hooters near EVERY spring training facility. I think that it's in the union contract somewhere that there has to be one within 2 miles. [/B][/QUOTE]

Is this what it will take to get MLB in Portland? Building a Hooters?

Yeah, you can build a Hooters in Portland. You may have to go out-of-state to stock it though. :D


That was my mandatory "male chauvinist pig" quote for today.
[/B][/QUOTE]

right on
 

That observation is so right on target and I would hope my patner would make the signal right away.