Intramural TO Question

[BoomerSooner]

I'll start giving everyone a nice big Oklahoma Hi and Hello here in my first post (been reading for a while, great site and great info/answers).

I've been reffing high school (mainly JV, some varsity) and decided to give my hand a try at some intramural BB (It's not the best BB, but its 4 days a week, 45 min max real time games and 8 bucks a game so its nice to have the cash).

We use NCAA rules w/ some timing modifications. The clock only stops on timeouts during the entire game. Often teams in close games will try to foul and use TO's to stop the clock during the shots. Of course, teams will run out of TO's but many realize that the T that comes with excessive TO's is worth the risk (esp. since many teams just can't make a free-throw; 3pt shots yes - free throws no). Now our supervisor tells me that to limit this charge an indirect T to the TO calling player (if in excess) and eject on the 3rd (for some reason teams have the same player call all their TO's). Now finally to my question (I know I'm long winded, if it gets too bad just let me know), where is the justification in giving the indirect T? In Fed its just a team foul and if memory serves no indirect at all to anyone. Same in NCAA, or is there some alteration I'm missing?

[bob jenkins]

By NCAA rules, the "excess TO" is not charged to a player.

Your supervisor is just making this one of the exceptions to the NCAA rules for the intramural games. (I assume there are others)

Maybe you should / could suggest that the NCAAW rtule be adopted -- 2 shots plus loss of ball for the excess TO.

[Mregor]

Originally posted by BoomerSooner
but its 4 days a week, 45 min max real time games and 8 bucks a game so its nice to have the cash).

8? Wow! Not to offend anyone, but $8 won't get you anything close to an official where I am.

Mregor

[Mark Padgett]

In running clock games, the clock runs during free throws (except, perhaps, in the last two minutes or so, depending on your rules), so if they foul, then request and are granted a timeout, when they come out of the timeout to shoot the free throws, the clock starts again. That's because once the timeout is over, the clock starts when the ball becomes live. This is different than in a stop clock game.

Seems to me that you guys just need to straighten out your rules and this problem might go away.

[footlocker]

Originally posted by Mregor

8? Wow! Not to offend anyone, but $8 won't get you anything close to an official where I am.

Mregor

Agreed, I wouldn't ref from a lifeguard chair for $8 a game.

[BigGref]

I'm both a Lifeguard and an Official, haven't tried the combination yet, Could work!

I get less than $7 an hour for IM games at Indiana, and turn around and get $45 for a MS game. It is definitely not for the money when it comes to Intramurals, just a whole lot of good practice!

[ref18]

The CYO league i started reffing in now pays me $5 a game. That's a big jump from the $2 i made when i started. These are hour long games. But the experience i gained has given me the base to be working tons of $18-$30 games with my association.

[Rich]

Originally posted by ref18
The CYO league i started reffing in now pays me $5 a game. That's a big jump from the $2 i made when i started. These are hour long games. But the experience i gained has given me the base to be working tons of $18-$30 games with my association.

I work in the same area as Mregor and the least I've ever gotten from a rec program was $10, last season. This year they paid $15. That said, in two seasons I've never called a technical there and can't remember a coach trying to work me the entire time. It truly is all about the kids. At the end of the season they sent me a thank you card for working games for them.

Speaking of game fees, last night I got a check for almost $91 for a boys varsity game. Conference pays mileage in order to draw officials from the city. What's funny is the junior college down the street from this high school uses 2 officials and pays only $65 for a game with NO travel.

--Rich

[BoomerSooner]

The $8 an hour isn't great but the refs are all from the student body, so many of them have no experience at all, and unfortunatly don't care alot. Its hard to pay much more than that considering the circumstances. Then there is the budget that goes along with going to a state school. Its not great, but like I said its just a little extra.

I definitly wouldn't stand for that at any other level.

[Mregor]

Originally posted by ref18
The CYO league i started reffing in now pays me $5 a game. That's a big jump from the $2 i made when i started. These are hour long games. But the experience i gained has given me the base to be working tons of $18-$30 games with my association.

Wow, the CYO league I'm working pays $35 per game and usually do 3 games. Sure hope they don't talk to each other.

Mregor

[Stat-Man]

In running clock games, the clock runs during free throws (except, perhaps, in the last two minutes or so, depending on your rules), so if they foul, then request and are granted a timeout, when they come out of the timeout to shoot the free throws, the clock starts again. That's because once the timeout is over, the clock starts when the ball becomes live. This is different than in a stop clock game

---

It depends on the league/tournament. In the Labor Day Tournament I have been working at the past several years, the clock is running clock except for the final 2 minutes of the second half and any overtime (unless it's a 20 point or more margin).

In the first half of these games, teams that actually know strategy will call time out in the final minute to stop the clock during fouls so that the clock won't stop until after both free throws are shot. Perfectly "legal" under this tournament's rules.

On the other side of the coin, I've been at a summer lague where calling a time out at any time prior to under a minute to go in the 2nd half does not stop the clock. (The perfect way to keep coaches from spending too much time in a timeout )

It's all a matter of how the tournament implements its altered timing.

[ref18]

Originally posted by Mregor

Wow, the CYO league I'm working pays $35 per game and usually do 3 games. Sure hope they don't talk to each other.

Mregor

Well, i'm gonna have a long chat with my supervisor about that

[SMEngmann]

Wow $35 for a CYO game. I get $22 here. However I also do IM games and they pay 30-35 per game. I guess things just go with the area.

[ref18]

$22, that's still way more than we make. A normal official makes $2.50, because i'm senior, and have experience and training, they double it.

[Adam]

Originally posted by ref18
$22, that's still way more than we make. A normal official makes $2.50, because i'm senior, and have experience and training, they double it.

Wow. $2.50? I think most assignors make that. I don't do it for the money, but even in college I don't think I could have justified the time spent doing that for $2.50; with all the heat I took when I did college IM games.