Using the Table Crew

[gsf23]

I was working the clock for a girls Varsity game recently and there were about 2.5 seconds remaining in the second quarter, team had called a timeout to set up a last shot. During the TO one of the officials (two whistle crew) came over to the table and asked me and the bookeeper to pay attention during the last shot because they may come to us if it is close and they can't decide if it was before the buzzer or not.

I know that the table is part of the officiating team but I was just wondering if any other officials out there have told the table this before or even used the table in a situation like that or any other situation, like forgetting who a foul was on or who is shooting.

[cmathews]

it is acceptable to use the table crew in this situation. The question comes into play if the gym is loud and the crew can't hear the horn. The other questions are still open to debate in other threads on the forum. I personally don't have a problem with asking the table crew about a basket, but only if my partner and I disagree or neither one has a clue......which is never a good thing LOL, and as of yet, knock on wood, hasn't happened....

[Mike Burns]

Originally posted by gsf23
During the TO one of the officials (two whistle crew) came over to the table and asked me and the bookeeper to pay attention during the last shot because they may come to us if it is close and they can't decide if it was before the buzzer or not.

I would hope that the table is paying attention so that the clock would be started correctly, ie; at the officials signal, but the responsibility of making this call belongs to the trail in two whistle. If I am the trail, I'm making this call immediately and decisively.

Originally posted by gsf23
I know that the table is part of the officiating team but I was just wondering if any other officials out there have told the table this before or even used the table in a situation like that or any other situation, like forgetting who a foul was on or who is shooting.

The table crew is a valuable part of the officiating crew. I would check with the table on timeouts remaining, players 5th foul, bonus situations, etc..

[footlocker]

I agree with burns here. Trail’s call and it should be made emphatically. Unless the officials are clueless, I wouldn’t go to the table. And if I am thinking about it already with 2.5 seconds to go, I’ll be sure to get it right and make the call. I might need the table if the last second shot snuck up on me. But in this situation, the refs know about the game situation and they should simply be aware that they may have to make a close call and make it.

You can’t go to the table and let them know that there may be a foul and help me get the number.

[TPS2859]

I agree with what has been said and might add that knowing I have only 2.5 on the clock and I have the chop, I will count out (to my self) 2.5 and call it, horn or no horn. Many times the clock keeper will get into the game so much that they forget to start on time.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by gsf23
I was working the clock for a girls Varsity game recently and there were about 2.5 seconds remaining in the second quarter, team had called a timeout to set up a last shot. During the TO one of the officials (two whistle crew) came over to the table and asked me and the bookeeper to pay attention during the last shot because they may come to us if it is close and they can't decide if it was before the buzzer or not.

I know that the table is part of the officiating team but I was just wondering if any other officials out there have told the table this before or even used the table in a situation like that or any other situation, like forgetting who a foul was on or who is shooting.

I had a V game about 3 years ago where I was the R and the U was the T on a last second shot. We pre-games this scanerio, but he admittidly froze and was not prepared to rule on such a shot. I thought it was released on time, but I wasn not 100%.

I went over and asked the table. They said it was clearly early. Easy call for me. Back up into the FRA... tweet, give the basket counts signal.

They're allowed to be used and if necessary, use them.

[gsf23]

Thanks...I was just wondering. I have done a lot of games as both a coach, time keeper and score keeper and I had never had an offical say that to me when I was at the table.

[One-Whistle]

Originally posted by footlocker
... You can’t go to the table and let them know that there may be a foul and help me get the number.

Footlocker:
I believe that you misread GSF23's original post. He did not say that the table has been asked to help LOOK for a foul. He identified a situation in which the official was forgetting who a foul was on or who should be shooting.

And the fact is, I have had to rely on the table to help sort out a mess which included a team who had two pairs of identical twins on the floor at the same time. (I wondered, what is in the water in that community.)

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by gsf23


I know that the table is part of the officiating team but I was just wondering if any other officials out there have told the table this before or even used the table in a situation like that or any other situation, like forgetting who a foul was on or who is shooting.

Never did this, never will do this.

What I have been doing lately is thinking about who'll be playing on the left side of the infield at 161st St & River Ave.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
[/B]

What I have been doing lately is thinking about who'll be playing on the left side of the infield at 161st St & River Ave.

[/B][/QUOTE]Worry about second base instead.Still need one of them.

Wonder what Brett Boones's up to?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

What I have been doing lately is thinking about who'll be playing on the left side of the infield at 161st St & River Ave.

[/B]

Worry about second base instead.Still need one of them.

Wonder what Brett Boones's up to? [/B][/QUOTE]

[PAULK1]

back to the original post, I think that official did some good preventive officiating. In essence he has told the table they are a vital part of the crew and to stay focused
for the last 2.5 and lets not screw up a good game right at the end. And did this without being demeaning or overbearing.

[davidw]

As many have pointed out, we pregame the last sec. shot scenario everytime, and, as it should be, we agree the trail (in 2-man) will take this. All this with some minor disagreements/opinions from different posters.

We had a sitch, in our assoc, a few weeks ago I meant to post here earlier, so this seems a good time to do it.

4.7 seconds left in game. Home team down by one with ball in backcourt for inbounds. Long pass, dribble to the hole, shot, offensive tap, ball goes in at approx. the same time as horn sounds.

Here's the kicker. Lead going trail is running up sidelines on bench side and collides with player standing up and is literally taken out of the play and ends up in the lap of spectators in the bleachers. He never saw the end of the game.

His partner, who has estab. himself under the hoop saw the whole play (did not see his partner get 'taken out').

Crowd is going wild, esp. home team who is certain the bucket counts and is waiting to see someone signal such. By this time they locate Trail--still in the bleachers--and very groggy from the hit.

Two officials get together. Trail obviously points out he hasn't a clue, Lead tells his partner he saw the tap leave before the horn--basket good.

Lead goes to reporting area, after clearing exhuberant, players, bench personal, and gives the basket good signal and jogs off court. His partner, sees him leaving and sees the need to follow.

Several things about this sitch. The need to realize, Trail may not always be making the last sec. shot call. The Table Officials might have been needed. The Lead may have a look at the play (in this instance, he did) and should be prepared to assist. The questions we asked and were asked by others had to do with how Lead signaled good basket and immediately left the court. Some at the site and after, questioned whether they should have informed the coache(s) how they made their determination. Also brought up was whether a T should have been assessed because of the Visting team player--who interfered with the Trail-- who was a step on the court.

Thoughts?

[golfdesigner]

Originally posted by Mike Burns

I would hope that the table is paying attention so that the clock would be started correctly, ie; at the officials signal, but the responsibility of making this call belongs to the trail in two whistle. If I am the trail, I'm making this call immediately and decisively.

The table crew is a valuable part of the officiating crew. I would check with the table on timeouts remaining, players 5th foul, bonus situations, etc..

If it is boiling down to the end and the score is somewhat close, I go to the Table Crew at a TO and tell them please pay attention, we may not be able to hear the horn at the end and we may need to come to them to determine if the shot got off before the horn. I do this especially at venues where there may be only one clock on the wall and it may be behind the T and the L does not have a real good view of clock; or when doing rec games and the clock is a portable one on the scorers table that has a real weak buzzer anyway.

Just a little bit of "preventive officiating" I think

[chseagle]

I found this topic whilebrowsing through the board. This topic brings up interesting points concerning how the table crew can be used.

Especially about last second shots.