Sticky TO situation

[ChuckElias]

Here's a question that came up in my pre-game yesterday. (Great game, by the way. Home team had a HUGE upset win on Friday night. Emotionally drained, maybe partied too much after the game. Saturday, they find themselves down by 24 to the #8 ranked D3 team in the country. They come all the way back and cut it 2 points with under 30 seconds to play. Couldn't pull out the win, but oh what fun!)

Anyway, here's the question. Team A has control of the ball in front court when B1 races up to the official and requests a TO. Brain-dead official blows the whistle, intending to grant the TO to Team B.

Basically, the question is, can the official rule that this is an inadvertant whistle, NOT grant the TO, and put the ball back in play?

My understanding is that in HS, this would not be allowed. I think that in HS a TO that is granted, even in error, is allowed and the team can take the full TO.

But my partner wondered if the "granting" of the TO hasn't really occured yet. In other words, the whistle doesn't grant the TO. It's not granted until it's reported as a TO. Well, if that's true, then it seems like you could just say "Bad whistle, and there's been no TO granted. Let's play."

Thoughts from a HS perspective please.

Now, from an NCAA perspective, something like this actually happened to me once (I posted about it a long time ago). I blew the whistle to grant a TO, but the coach didn't want it unless his team scored on the possession. Communication screw-up. Anyway, the R comes over and says, "He didn't want it, so we don't grant it." And we just resumed the game.

So yesterday, I'm looking through the NCAA book, and I can't find any rule or AR that supports that procedure, either.

Thoughts from an NCAA perspective please.

Because now, I don't really know what to think about this stupid thing in either rule-set. Anybody have a definitive case play or rule covering the granting of TO's?

[Dan_ref]

Maybe I'm not following your first case.

Inadvertent whistle creates a dead ball. Either team can request a TO during a dead ball. Under what rule would you DENY the TO request during the inadvertent whistle dead ball?

[ChuckElias]

I don't know, Dan. As I said, he was "wondering". That's why I'm asking.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Chuck:

NFHS: Grant Team B's request for a time-out.

NCAA Men's/Women's: Even though the official stopped the game, Team B's request for a time-out is not granted. Team A is immediately given the ball for a throw-in nearest the spot on the court where the ball was when the official stopped the game.

There are Casebook Play (NFHS)/Approved Ruling (NCAA) for the play you have described, but I am just too lazy to get my books out today to reference them, because the play I want to reference might be in one of my books up in the attic and I am too lazy to climb up there and look for them.

MTD, Sr.

[PAULK1]

I maybe off base here but when you sound the whistle you have granted the TO request when you stopped the clock.
Charging the TO is when it is reported to the table.

For NFHS it is casebook 5.8.3 SIT E

The strange thing is that this used to be listed as one of the differences between NCAA and NFHS but has been ommitted this year in the chart.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
There are Casebook Play (NFHS)/Approved Ruling (NCAA) for the play you have described, but I am just too lazy to get my books out today

Mark, if you've got an AR for the NCAA ruling, I'd appreciate it if you'd dig it out. I looked thru my book over the weekend and couldn't find anything.

[devdog69]

Chuck,
I'll see what I can find also. I do remember talking about this during our meetings either late summer or the conference meetings in the fall. I don't remember if we had anything in writing, but it was recommended that we put the ball back in play with no TO, NCAA-W.

[gsf23]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Chuck:


NCAA Men's/Women's: Even though the official stopped the game, Team B's request for a time-out is not granted. Team A is immediately given the ball for a throw-in nearest the spot on the court where the ball was when the official stopped the game.

Can Team B at that time then request the TO, and would it be granted?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by gsf23

Can Team B at that time then request the TO, and would it be granted?

No.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
[/B]

Can Team B at that time then request the TO, and would it be granted? [/B][/QUOTE]


No.

[/B][/QUOTE]Rules reference?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Can Team B at that time then request the TO, and would it be granted? [/B]

No.

[/B][/QUOTE]Rules reference? [/B][/QUOTE]

MTD must be too excited about the Yankees new 3rd baseman to think clearly.

I doubt there's a rules reference...I await his reply.