What do you do?

[DJ]

Two person crew and we are working a high school semi final regional game. I am the the lead. Shot goes up at the top of the key and my partner blows his whistle for a foul and goes to report it to the bench. Pretty soon confusion is setting in in because some are saying the basket went in and he doesn't know so he comes over to ask me if the bucket counts. Now I am the lead under the basket so the last place I am looking is up at the basket. He is getting nervous and needs help so I go to the bench and ask the timer and scorer if the basket went in. Guess what? They say they don't know! One coach says it went in the other is not saying much of anything. Anyone got any ideas?

[zebraman]

Nope. You're screwed. :-)

Z

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by DJ
...One coach says it went in the other is not saying much of anything. Anyone got any ideas?

Lemme guess...the coach who kept his mouth shut was on the team that committed the foul. Right?

[Indy_Ref]

Ask the PA annoucer to ask the crowd!

Maybe your partner wasn't ready for this level?? And either was the table!!!

[davidw]

Many times at these games there are other officials or an assignor (and if you're like me, you spotted them fairly early)--might take a peek at them and seek some help.

Otherwise you can't guess and since neither you, your partner nor table personell saw the basket--you gotta rule no basket--shooting two for the foul.

What did you do?

[Bart Tyson]

Originally posted by davidw
Many times at these games there are other officials or an assignor (and if you're like me, you spotted them fairly early)--might take a peek at them and seek some help.

Otherwise you can't guess and since neither you, your partner nor table personell saw the basket--you gotta rule no basket--shooting two for the foul.

What did you do?

I don't think I would go outside the partners and table. Soooooo, I do agree, NO Guessing. NO Basket.

[DJ]

Well, the first thing I thought is I want to get it right so I started looking around to find someone else who I knew and could be credible. Right behind the bench was my friend Joel who was a long time referree and a good one who was paralzyed in a car accident coming home from a referreeing date so I asked him, "Joe, did the bucket go in?" and he said, 'I don't know?" Thanks Joe! So then I saw a long time sportswriter disinterested third party who I thought had some credibility, "Did the bucket go in?" He said yes so I said "bucket good" and the coach whose kid had fouled said, "nothing." Nasty situation but the right call and not a single word from anyone including the crowd. Not the correct procedure by the rule book and if anyone wanted to fuss they probably had a right to crucify my partner and now me but with a little sportmanship from a coach things worked out and we ended up with the right call. Thanks coach! I disagree with the comment about my partner not ready to work at that level because sooner or later we all have our hinder in a binder and need someone to help us out. In this case my partner needed my help and I did the best I could for him in a tough situation. Eventually we will all need our partners to "not leave us hanging" and be there when we really need them!

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by DJ
I disagree with the comment about my partner not ready to work at that level because sooner or later we all have our hinder in a binder and need someone to help us out. In this case my partner needed my help and I did the best I could for him in a tough situation. Eventually we will all need our partners to "not leave us hanging" and be there when we really need them!

There's a coach who posts on here sometimes who uses a signature line:

If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to be a horrible warning.

From your situation, we can all learn to watch the ball when it is in our primary!

[Nevadaref]

While I agree with what has been posted so far, I did have an idea.

The idea is to just count the basket and see how loud a boo you get from the crowd. If everyone starts protesting that it didn't go in, that is a pretty good indicator that it did not.

People generally boo a bit if you wave one off that went in because you call the foul before the act of shooting, but from my experience, they flip out if you count one that didn't even go in!

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
from my experience, they flip out if you count one that didn't even go in!

And just how much experience do you have with erroneously counting a score?!?!

[footlocker]

Man, what a nasty situation. I too would go with an observer that I trust here. After that, no bucket. The coach can't yell too much there- he doesn't know either.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

And just how much experience do you have with erroneously counting a score?!?!

Sadly, way too much! Thankfully, not in basketball. I also officiate soccer and have had three situations where a goal was counted when it did not go in.

The first happened to a friend of mine in a big game that was played under lights. The ball went over the crossbar and he counted the goal. The mistaken goal allowed the visitors to win 2-1. The video tape of this incident was sent to our association and we got a good laugh out of watching it at a meeting. He is a good-natured guy and took the ribbing well.

For the second I was working with this same friend on the same field, again on a night game, when the ball did a similar thing at the same end of the field, and again he signalled a goal! Only this time it was the home team that was shooting. I had a chat with him that went something like, "Remember the video from last year? Well, that one didn't go in either." He responded, "Damn, I'm not ever working here again." The best part was that as he waved off the score, the coach yelled, "Hey, you owe us one from last year!"

The third was a game I watched this past season where two officials disagreed on whether the ball went in or not. The officials simply couldn't come to an agreement as both were sure of what they saw and were sticking to it. At this point a "helpful" parent on the sideline said that he had it on tape and offered the officials a look with his video camera. Although, under NFHS Soccer rules the officials cannot use video replay, they did it anyway! The tape showed the ball did not go in.

[Bart Tyson]

The ball went over the crossbar and he counted the goal.
[/B]

Lets seeee, ball in net...goal, ball in parking lot.... no goal.

[BigJoe]

You folks are being hard on that trail official. His primary is to stay with the shooter until he finishes his shot. It is very possible that he wouldn't see the basket go in if there is a foul call. Hopefully, you have time to move your focus to the basket after the shooter comes to the floor or the action around the shooter is over, but it is entirely possible that you may not. I agree with everyone that we don't want to guess, but we want to get the play right, whatever means are necessary.
Just my .02 worth.

[footlocker]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson

Lets seeee, ball in net...goal, ball in parking lot.... no goal. [/B]

Yeah, what's up with this. Can't afford nets in Nevada? I can't picture this. Then it happened again? Whaaat?

I know this is a basketball forum but you gotta explain this one.