Submit or check?

DJ · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 12, 2004, 02:10pm

Is the coach required to submit his lineup or to submit and then check the official book? Case in point, Coach submits his book to the official scorer with the correct numbers, starters, etc. The games starts and the first foul results in a wrong number being copied into the official book by the official scorer? How do we handle this? Does the coach have to submit and then check the official book?

Smitty · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 12, 2004, 02:15pm

Good question. This happened to me in an 8th grade game a couple weeks back. The away coach tells me the number was copied over wrong by the home scorekeeper. Ugh. I just let it go. I'll be interested in seeing the responses to this one. What are the odds there will be some disagreement? Hmmmm...

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 12, 2004, 02:16pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ
Is the coach required to submit his lineup or to submit and then check the official book? Case in point, Coach submits his book to the official scorer with the correct numbers, starters, etc. The games starts and the first foul results in a wrong number being copied into the official book by the official scorer? How do we handle this? Does the coach have to submit and then check the official book?

Just submit the lineup. One of the Referee's duties is to check the official scorebook. From your question, it might imply that the R should also check the Visitor's scorebook against the Home scorebook for any bookkeeping errors. In any case, your situation is a bookkeeping error by the Official Scorer and no technical foul should be charged.

MTD, Sr.

zebraman · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 12, 2004, 02:22pm

The rule book only indicates that the team must submit their line-up by the 10-minute mark. It says nothing about having to double-check the scorer's work.

If this happened, I'd try to find the original source that was supplied to the scorer. If it was fine, I'd pass on the T. If the source couldn't be found, I think I'd have no choice but to penalize. The source should be around... it's usually copied from the visiting book or a piece of paper right?

Z

mcdanrd · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 12, 2004, 02:26pm

In my opinion the coach is responsible for the official book. We are encouraged by our state association to have the head coach of each team look over the book and sign off that he/she agrees it is correct.

JRutledge · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 12, 2004, 02:30pm

All I do is try to look for is do we have the proper number of players in the book and on the court and do we have 5 starters. I might check to make sure that there are no dublicate numbers, but that is not as big of a deal for me when looking at the book. If we have not enough players in the book, then I am trying to anticipate a problem and want to avoid it.

Peace

DJ · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 12, 2004, 02:40pm

Team A has an away game Fri. and odd numbers. Coach copies his lineup into the book. This game is snowed out, postponed.
Sat. night the coach writes his lineup into the book for that nights game on the next page. You guessed it! That night playing at home and all even numbers the scorer copies the visiting team into the book onto Friday nights page(odd numbers) resulting in all wrong numbers at the first foul for Team A. When you flip the page all the correct numbers are present along with starters etc! What is the call? This actually happened to me. I did not penalize because I said the coach had fullfilled his duties to the official scorer and it was the scorers mistake. I did not get backing from my state association which is no big deal but thought I handled the situation according to rules and common sense. I did not want to penalized the kids for a scorers mistake.

gsf23 · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 12, 2004, 02:55pm

In ND after the official checks the official book he takes it over to each coach and asks them if everything is alright. If the coach says yes, then if something got copied wrong or whatever, T because the coach confirmed that everything was right.

cmathews · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 12, 2004, 02:56pm

what was the scorer doing when the tip was going on....it should have been caught then also...I agree if the original reference can be found and is correct I pass on the T also.

JRutledge · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 12, 2004, 03:06pm

Well DJ, it would only be one T for this mistake anyway. Change all the numbers but still give a T. What would you do if the other coach objected? The coach should have known better. But that is what I would do at the varsity level. The lower levels, I would not make as big an issue out of this. Sometimes we have a hard time getting the kids in the same color uniform, let alone the right numbers.

Peace

Ref in PA · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 12, 2004, 03:23pm

When I a the "R", as part of checking the book, I take the book to each coach and ask them to verify that the lineup is correct. That way, if there ever is a problem it is on the coach because he has "verified" the book. If there is a problem with the book when the coach checks it, I will get it corrected there without T's.

Is the coach required to check the book? No. but this is something taught in our association to manage the game better.

arthur_b9 · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 12, 2004, 05:43pm

We rely heavily on the official scorebook keeper to write down the teamÂ’s line-up information as they have received it. During this activity mistakes can happen. This is excellent game management by gsf23 and Ref in PA. Your actions decrease the possibility of this problem from occurring and/or prevent it from happening. Your association is providing good training. IÂ’m going to apply this to my game management/prevention. When the official scorebook line-up is completed during the prescribe time frame have both head coaches verify and sign-off on it one final time. IÂ’ll past it on to our association. DJ this is very good information you have received to prevent this from taking place in future games. Can anyone else share with us what you apply in your game management to prevent this from happening?

dblref · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 13, 2004, 06:35am

Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty
Good question. This happened to me in an 8th grade game a couple weeks back. The away coach tells me the number was copied over wrong by the home scorekeeper. Ugh. I just let it go. I'll be interested in seeing the responses to this one. What are the odds there will be some disagreement? Hmmmm...

The same thing happened a couple of weeks ago in a FB game. Partner (R) called foul on B-15, reported the foul, scorer said no such number, issued the T and got ready to shoot the 2 shots. Buzzer from table, found out that B-15 was listed in the visitor's book as B-45. Official scorer said he made a mistake in copying the number. Removed the T and put the ball back in play, everyone happy. Most times, I will compare both books -- just in case.

paxsonref · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 13, 2004, 09:20am

Had this happen in a state tournament girls game a couple years ago. Official scorer took the lineups from the program, coach never checked its accuracy, so we had to go with a T. He wasn't happy, but he understood there wasn't much else we could do.

Hawks Coach · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 13, 2004, 11:01am

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
Well DJ, it would only be one T for this mistake anyway. Change all the numbers but still give a T. What would you do if the other coach objected? The coach should have known better. But that is what I would do at the varsity level. The lower levels, I would not make as big an issue out of this. Sometimes we have a hard time getting the kids in the same color uniform, let alone the right numbers.

Peace

What mistake did the coach make? The coach personally entered all of his players with 100% accuracy on the first empty page for the home team in the scorebook. The scorekeeper then turned the book to the previous page where the home team's numbers were entered for a cancelled game and entered the other team's players on that page. Where did the home coach make a mistake? It is a scorekeeper error that is easily corrected.

This cannot be even one T. I don't understand this position that you and the association took on this issue, but maybe I am missing something here.