Can the ball touch the floor behind the baseline as it is being rolled out onto the floor? Where is the rule referenced? Thanks.

if a player releases the ball the throw n begins. If the ball touches out of bounds without being legally touched by a player, then violation on the throwing team, and the throw in ends.

Other teams ball.

Rule 9-2-2 is the cite to back this up.

If they are rolling the ball, there must not be any pressure and it is most likely with very little time on the clock. It'd have to be extremely obvious for me to blow a whistle on this.

Mregor

So, using this logic, after a made basket, player bounce passes the ball to another player out of bounds on the end line. (Which is a legal play, if you take the bouncing out of it.) So you call a violation because the ball made contact with out of bounds?

Other situation: Some schools have TONS of room off of the court. Rule says the player can be as far away from the out of bounds line, as long as they're in their approx. designated spot lane. If they bounce pass it in, but the bounce occurs out of bounds, you're going to call this a violation?

Let's be even more ridiculous: Player dribbles (bounces) the ball out of bounds once before making the throw-in. Violation?

Isn't the real intent of the rule being an in-bounds pass that goes out of bounds untouched?

The case where A1 legally throws the ball to A2 on an endline throw in isn't applicable. When going to the court, the ball must go directly to the court. A bounce pass between out of bounds teammates is not the same thing.
Yes, if the player backs up 8 feet on a spot throw in, and the ball bounces OOB before it gets onto the court, yes it's a violation. Not rediculous. It's the rule.

Footlocker's example is a throw-in. Your example is a pass. Two different rules for two completely different situations. Footlocker is right, by rule!

This is a pass not a throw in. No violation.

Yes.

So just to clarify...

If the in-bounder dribbles oob a couple of times it's legal, as long as she catches it again and the pass toward the inbounds floor doesn't touch oob. Correct?

yes.
The player throwing the ball in may bounce or dribble the ball. No violation.
If the throwin is after a successful try (made basket) then a team mate may be OOB as well. The two players may pass, including bouncing, the ball between them. No violation.
However when the ball is being thron in it must go directly on to the court and may not touch OOB before touching in bounds on the court.
See: illustrated book p. 58
rules book 7-5-7 p.50

BJ,
Although this comment by footlocker, "if a player releases the ball the throw n begins," is not totally correct, it does work for designated-spot throw-ins.

And now that it is you that has been shown to be clearly incorrect. Hopefully, in the future, you will not be so sardonic in your posts. :eek:

[Edited by Nevadaref on Feb 12th, 2004 at 07:16 AM]

The purpose of my post was to cause discussion. The purpose of yours?

My point being, even if this is a rule and we should all call our games according to the rules, we're going to make that call when the intent is clearly for a throw-in that goes out of bounds? That's a gutsy call (using the original poster's situation of rolling a throw-in), and a difficult one to sell to the coach when he goes off on you.

Sorry, but I'm not touching this one. I've got nothing.

Don't go looking for trouble!

Does that mean that you think that officials should ignore violations if they think that someone will complain about the call? :confused:

My point being, even if this is a rule and we should all call our games according to the rules, we're going to make that call when the intent is clearly for a throw-in that goes out of bounds? That's a gutsy call (using the original poster's situation of rolling a throw-in), and a difficult one to sell to the coach when he goes off on you. [/B][/QUOTE]

The call is a violation. That may or may not be a gutsy call depending on your ability, and credibility as an official. I would be more concerned with the call being a correct one than with selling the call to a coach. How would you sell a non-call to an opposing coach who wants to know why it was not called? I am not sure where the statement "the intent is clearly for a throw-in that goes out of bounds?" originates? This situation starts OOB.

I agree that I'm not looking for this, but if it's obvious to the guys in the top row, I'm calling this. Legally, it's a violation. It's also to prevent a bounce pass that is bounced out of bounds. Scenario: A1 throwing under the hoop in his front court. Right next to the lane. A2 is open at the three point line on the other side. Due to good defense and the basketball supports, the only way he can get it there is a bounce pass that bounces 3/4 of the way to A2, OOB. Gotta call it. Illegal advantage.

This is a question of semantics.

I'm not saying we ignore violations and please don't go putting words in my mouth. However, to call this, is simply asking for trouble.

Now if player is bouncing ball out of bounds, 2, 3 or 10 feet away, it's a different story.

If the kid is backing up against the wall, and the ball has to roll 1, 2, 3 feet to get inbounds.... different story.

I just don't see this ever happening in a game. Not in a situation in which it we'd have to call the violation.

Ren

Simply asking for trouble? I completely disagree with your philosophy, Ren.

I've seen this exact play in games several times. It usually occurs in a situation something like this: Team A scores with 4-5 seconds to go to either tie the game, or go up a point or two. Team B calls timeout to set up a play. After the TO, B1, throwing the ball in, rolls the ball up the court to save a coupla seconds on the clock. If the rolled ball on the throw-in touches the floor OOB, it is a violation by rule, is it not? Same as if the player bounce-passed the throw-in into a teammate, and the bounce-pass hit OOB? Now if you don't call the violation, Ren, and B goes down the floor to win the game at the buzzer, who do really think won that game for team B? You, Ren- that's who! You screwed team A completely by ignoring the violation, and thus handing team B that undeserved advantage.

Call it any way that you want to. Imo, however, you are wrong to ignore violations like these.

I can't ever remember ever taking heat for an oob violation. What is a coach going to complain about? How dare you follow the rules.

Another way to look at it...
 

What's the difference if the ball strikes first out of bounds right in front of the kid throwing (or rolling) the ball in or if he heaves it and on the fly it touches out of bounds on the side or other end of the court? No difference at all. Violation.

At times...
 

We definitely overlook some violations.

A team that is rolling the ball-in is behind in the score; the clock is stopped; they are trying to conserve time and thereby give themselves more time to score. If they are rolling it, there is no defensive pressure. I've never really considered it, but for me to call a violation on this play, it is going to have to be very obvious. By obvious I mean the player puts the ball on the floor OOB and then pushes it up the floor. I imagine it is possible for a player to roll the ball from 10 feet OOB but it doesn't seem likely. I'm envisioning the thrower to be close to the line, bent over, and gently rolling the ball onto the court... having the ball never touch OOB.

Of course I could lie down on the floor and with my eye next to the floor watch to see exactly where the ball first touched... then the ball would probably be passed half court by the time I got up to call a violation. ;)

A team that is trying to make a throw-in against defensive pressure and that makes a sideways bounce pass that first touches OOB or on the line... I'm going to call that everytime. That is part of what you are watching for and is why you remain standing next to the thrower looking down the line. The poor pass was a result of good defense and deserves to be rewarded.

Maybe it comes from having small gyms in my area, but there's usually only 3 - 5 feet of room out of bounds. for a player to roll the ball from out of bounds to inbounds, he would have to literally place it on the floor and push it.

I guess other gyms are different, but that's the way it is in my area.

REn

I serioulsy doubt if I'm looking for this -- there are other, more important things to look for on this play -- is the clock still stopped, is the defense going to challenge the person picking up the ball,




[

Quote:

Now if you don't call the violation, Ren, and B goes down the floor to win the game at the buzzer, who do really think won that game for team B? You, Ren- that's who! You screwed team A completely by ignoring the violation, and thus handing team B that undeserved advantage.

Now you're sounding like a bitter (and wrong) coach.

Re: At times...
 

Very good examples DTTB, and pretty much the same way I see it. Well put.

Now you're sounding like a bitter (and wrong) coach.
[/B][/QUOTE]Your're partly right. If I lost a game where an official ignored an obvious violation at the end, I certainly would be bitter.

In my relatively short time on this forum I have not found myself opposing JR very often; in this sitch, I'm inclined to agree with Tony. Probably going to ignore unles blatant (more than a few inches). "I'll know it when I see it".

ok, I haven't read this thread in a while. I thought it was going to be an open and shut case. Question asked, I cited a rule. What's the debate? Doesn't look like anyone wants to debate the rule.

This is a throw in violation and the throw in ends. I'm not going to make sure the "top row" sees it. Ubsurdly, I apparently have to mention that I am not going to lie down either. However, if it is obvious to me then it is an easy call every time.

By the way, I'm never "looking for trouble." If you don't want a coach yelling at you, volunteer to work the consessions. Officiating is not for you. I'll call the violation, take the heat, and get the ball back in play. Chances are, I'm not going to make a big deal of this- hit my whistle, point the other direction, yell the color and get on with the game. He can direct his frustration toward his poorly coached player.

Is a throw in truly a pass? If the other player is out of bounds, why would you need to bounce pass it to them???? Why not just a simple pass. It would be quicker and if deception is what you are attempting to throw off the other team, I would think a bounce pass would not be as affective.

I see no problem after a field goal in bounce passing the ball to a second player OOB but agree that it would slow down the play and allow the defense to adjust.