The Official Forum - Bunch of new-guy type questions

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Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
So...if we agree it's advantage/disadvantage on this call, can you tell me what advantage a player has gained by standing with his back to the basket and his heels on the FT line? And notice he didn't say anything about a pass, or a rebound, he simply said the kid is standing there with his back to the basket and was wondering if he should call 3 seconds.

Of course I can't. Without a specific game situation, no one could. But I don't think you can say never as the rule certainly allows for it. What I'm saying is there could absolutely be a scenario, maybe not the one with the kid having his back to the basket, where I would call 3 seconds in this area of the paint. If you never would, that's fine. But it could happen and be backed up by the rules.

If all the original poster really cares about is that specific scenario, with the kid standing there, back to the basket and no pass to him, then I agree, don't call it. But if he was wondering whether this was a valid place on the court to call 3-seconds, it absolutely is.

Never say never, I gotcha! :)

We agree.

Quote:

Originally posted by OverAndBack
rainmaker, thanks for the tips on over and back. I'll try that next time. And I know you have to be all the way over before you can be over and back, right? So a player who comes partway across the line, but never gets both feet over, and then moves to the left or right and has the ball and/or a foot on either side of the line hasn't committed a violation?

Four things for backcourt violation

1. Team A control
2. Ball has achieved frontcourt status (see below)
3. Team A last to touch before ball goes into backcourt
4. Team A first to touch after ball goes into backcourt

The most complicated thing about this is determining when the ball has achieved frontcourt status. If the ball touches the floor in the frontcourt or any player in the frontcourt, it has frontcourt status (A player has frontcourt status when he or she has no body parts touching in the back court) (except in the exception I'll tell in a minute). Once the ball attains frontcourt status in one of these ways, then it always has frontcourt status even when it is in the air on a pass or fumble. The only exception to these is that if a player is dribbling from back court to front court, the ball does not have frontcourt status until both of the dribblers feet and the ball have all touched in the frontcourt one right after the other with none of those three touching in backcourt in between. And remember that the line is in the backcourt. And remember that none of this applies on a throw - in until the ball is under player control. And none applies after a shot goes up until the ball is under player control.

Now, isn't that simple?!?

And be sure to keep reading this thread, because I've undoubtedly missed something important, and someone will have to correct me. At least, I hope someone corrects me!

Quote:

Originally posted by OverAndBack
I knew about the other scenario, where a player who was in backcourt comes over and takes a pass. You're considered to have achieved possession on the side of the court where your feet left the floor. Had that happen in high school when I played.

Easy way to remember:

You are where you were till you get where you're going.

[Edited by rainmaker on Feb 9th, 2004 at 03:02 PM]

One small addition: There is the other exception that goes like this: A1 has possesion of the ball in her backcourt. B3 is in A's backcourt also, near the division line. A1 throws a pass, and B3 jumps from B's frontcourt, secures the pass, and lands in B's backcourt. Legal play. This one gets coaches and fans really fired up, especially when the player lands with one foot on each side of the line.

[Edited by SHellmueller on Feb 11th, 2004 at 09:32 AM]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mregor

Quote:

Originally posted by OverAndBack
I have been doing a lot of girls' games in grades 5-8 and they feature a lot (a LOT) of jump ball situations, where two players get a hold of the ball and tie it up. How long do you wait on that, is it different for different levels, is this something that happens more at lower levels or are my partners and I just too quick to whistle or too slow to let it play out?

At the level you mentioned, a lot of held balls will happen. Personally, I prefer to catch a foul accross the arm or push from behind when the defender goes to tie up the ball if the offensive player has clear posession. Running down the court, jump ball, run the other way, jump ball, repeat, is not a game. On the other hand, if you call a few fouls, there is likely to be a lot less held ball situations. Just my input...

Mregor

Quote:

Originally posted by Mregor

Quote:

Originally posted by OverAndBack
I have been doing a lot of girls' games in grades 5-8 and they feature a lot (a LOT) of jump ball situations, where two players get a hold of the ball and tie it up. How long do you wait on that, is it different for different levels, is this something that happens more at lower levels or are my partners and I just too quick to whistle or too slow to let it play out?

At the level you mentioned, a lot of held balls will happen. Personally, I prefer to catch a foul accross the arm or pursh from behid when the defender goes to tie up the ball if the offensive player has clear posession. Running down the court, jump ball, run the other way, jump ball, repeat, is not a game. On the other hand, if you call a few fouls, there is likely to be a lot less held ball situations. Just my input...Mregor

I admit that the girls game features too many held balls. But calling fouls to prevent held balls is not the way to deal with this. Frequently, girls don't snatch the rebound, chin and pivot, so they leave the ball exposed to defenders who are mor ethan happy to grab on. These are held balls. The game doesn't flow as well, but don't look for fouls to avoid the held ball. You are then rewarding offensive players who don't take care of the ball.

Quote:

Originally posted by Hawks Coach

Quote:

Originally posted by Mregor

Quote:

Originally posted by OverAndBack
I have been doing a lot of girls' games in grades 5-8 and they feature a lot (a LOT) of jump ball situations, where two players get a hold of the ball and tie it up. How long do you wait on that, is it different for different levels, is this something that happens more at lower levels or are my partners and I just too quick to whistle or too slow to let it play out?

At the level you mentioned, a lot of held balls will happen. Personally, I prefer to catch a foul accross the arm or pursh from behid when the defender goes to tie up the ball if the offensive player has clear posession. Running down the court, jump ball, run the other way, jump ball, repeat, is not a game. On the other hand, if you call a few fouls, there is likely to be a lot less held ball situations. Just my input...Mregor

I admit that the girls game features too many held balls. But calling fouls to prevent held balls is not the way to deal with this. Frequently, girls don't snatch the rebound, chin and pivot, so they leave the ball exposed to defenders who are mor ethan happy to grab on. These are held balls. The game doesn't flow as well, but don't look for fouls to avoid the held ball. You are then rewarding offensive players who don't take care of the ball.

I think what Mregor was saying is we often miss the foul as the opposing player is attempting to tie up the player with the first touch of the ball. I agree with that and I too, make sure I've got the foul first and not the jump ball where there has been illegal contact.

I also, don't want to be rewarding defensive players who manage to tie up the ball only by fouling the player with the ball.

Girls have no monopoly on poor rebounding techniques. I see it in games I call all the way to top level HS, boys, varsity, and games I don't call--at the college level. 'fatigue makes cowards of us all' or at least fundamentally unsound ballplayers. :)

What davidw said

I think we all agree on this! The held ball, when used appropriately, punishes bad offense. The foul, when used appropriately, punishes bad defense.