Alright people. I had a pair of extremely frustrating JV games this week. I thought someone could maybe offer some advice.

I am a third year official and I really try very to understand the rules and be mechanically sound. I was working these games with an older, more-experienced official. We didn't have time to conduct a pregame, primarily because most of the officials in my association show up 10 to maybe 15 minutes before game time.

There have been a couple of points on which I have been working very hard. I think about these before every game. One of these is officiating my primary area of coverage (this is in a 2 man crew).

My partner *consistently* made calls that were COMPLETELY in my area. And, to make it worse, the vast majority of these were totally wrong calls. For example, he was in the lead position both times (almost to the end line each time) when he called two backcourt violations. I was on top of the play and they were very obviously not a violation.

One of my problems with this is that I feel it makes me look like a fool. I had to bite my tongue during the game and it really distracted me at times. Can any of you offer any advice?

I call with two groups. This group is small, unorganized, and the majority of the referees are what I would consider unprofessional. But, I also call games with a much larger, well organized, and very professional group of referees. Being a third-year official, I take games anywhere I can get them and pretty much anytime.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated. Thanks.

I think you have to speak up at halftime and tell this guy to call in his area. You may piss him off but better he be pissed off than continue to put up with such crap. BTW, it's likely that he's the one looking like the fool.

You may need to make a decision as to whether you want to continue working with the smaller group. If it continues to create these types of situations, I would probably drop it.

As far as experience goes which is more important, quality or quantity?

I agree to let him know that you are more than competent to call your own area. Inform him to read the 2 person crew mechanics to understand his area of priority. If you make him mad, tough! You obviously know your stuff, and want to do a good job. I think you need to take all the games you can get, but if I would call the AD's and if you find yourself booked with this guy again, request out of the game. Most officials like this are set in there ways, and nothing you can do will change that. Keep up the hard work, and good luck on your partners!!!!!!!!!

I agree that you should talk to the partner, but approach is very important. Think about it: A 3-year official trying to tell a "veteran" official to call his own area? If I'm working with a relative rookie, and he starts telling me what to do because he "knows" he's right about something, I'm gonna smile and then tell him he may not know as much as he thinks. In your situation, Joe, you may be absolutely accurate in your description, but better to approach your partner more subtly and ASK about those couple of situations, explaining that they were in your area of responsibility, you had a good look at them, and they really appeared to be legal. If the veteran insists he was right in calling the violations, then ask him to help you learn by experience by letting you "live or die" with your own calls. Plus, if he is watching your area (i.e., watching the ball everywhere), how are you as a crew going to cover the off-ball action adequately.

My point is that you can choose to approach the situation firmly by telling him to "butt out," but you are more likely to get him "working" with you and have a better second half if you approach him with a degree of respect. Nothing begets defensiveness faster than telling someone flat out how to do his job, and that's not going to make for a smoother game. Swallow some pride or ego by being more subtle in trying to address the problem, and take some personal satisfaction in how you handled the situation. Who knows, maybe you'll learn something new. At the least, you'll learn how to work with someone more effectively that you'd rather not work with at all if you had a choice.

Joe, I agree with Tony's advice and I would only add that
this "vet" is making your calls because he does not trust
you. What you should have done, particularly on the back
court whistles, was to declare an inadvertent whistle.
Run over to him & ask him what he saw, then tell him he was
wrong and give the ball back to A, whether he agrees or not.
Let everyone in the gym know you have corrected his mistake.
He might be pissed but he won't be making your calls any
more.

-Dan

Gees, Dan!
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef Joe, I agree with Tony's advice and I would only add that this "vet" is making your calls because he does not trust you. What you should have done, particularly on the back court whistles, was to declare an inadvertent whistle. Run over to him & ask him what he saw, then tell him he was wrong and give the ball back to A, whether he agrees or not. Let everyone in the gym know you have corrected his mistake. He might be pissed but he won't be making your calls any more. -Dan

Dan,
I could never do that.
If that other Ref is so mentally challenged to make a horrible reach-and-call, there is no telling what kind of argument could ensue right there in front of God and everybody.
mick

Mick, as far as I'm concerned if my partner as *lead*
makes *any* backcourt call he has gone far over
the line and I'm gonna fix both the play and his thinking
right then & there. As I said I'll go over & have a "make
believe conference" with him but there's no way
I'm letting him have that call.

BTW, are you getting clobbered with the white stuff?

Dan,
That blows me away, that you would do that!
Oh, well, you wouldn't have to do it to me. :)
Not much snow U.P. here, relative to other years. Plenty for snowmobiling and skiing. Plus when we get snow the moisture content is usually pretty low so it's not too heavy. In general, 10" of our snow is probably equal in weight to one inch of Chicago snow. Those poor Chicago fans.
mick

Wow! Thanks for all the input. It will all be very useful, I'm sure. I'm not a very confrontational person, and Lord knows I've made my fair share of mistakes (and then some!).

Under most circumstances, things like that don't bother me. But in this case, he was really making me look like a total fool. I didn't say anything to him during the game, but if we call together again, I'll bring it up in a polite manner.

Thanks again.

(Snow - what's that?!?)

[Edited by JoeD1 on Dec 12th, 2000 at 12:41 PM]

Agree with Todd's approach-I might add that TRUST is the most important thing official teams must have between them. The pre-game is vital,especially when working with these difficult partners. Don,t try to do too many games and strive to work with the most professional group possible. Working with an unprofessional group will only make you develop bad habits and you will find it difficult to progress.
YIBB
Pistol

Thanks, Pistol. Until your post, I was feeling rather surprised and disappointed at how many were supporting a more confrontational approach. I understand the inclination to do so, but I believe the most successful officials are those who have and utilize good "people skills" with players and coaches. If we can hold our tongues with coaches, and say something in a calm and helpful manner, why wouldn't we apply those same skills with our fellow officials? Being confrontational, and not caring whether we "piss off" our partner, is neither professional nor helpful. Discussing what we noticed, listening to his/her explanation and trying to agree on a procedure that will get us through this particular game most smoothly will, in my opinion, yield the best result. Having an angry discourse during halftime will likely see TWO angry officials come out for the second half who are short in patience, not working as a team, and unable to concentrate fully on their jobs. And THAT is neither good for the game, nor for the officials themselves.

We have to remember that the only person out there in our corner is our partner. If you are having issues with him, address it in a professional manner during dead balls or at halftime. Like was said earlier, the best apprach is to find out what was seen by your partner. I have seen games, and worked games where there is ill will between partners...it sucks.

SNOW: frozen atmospheric vapour falling to earth in light white flakes. Enjoy..

I AM CANADIAN!

SH

Well. All of you "why can't we all just get along" guys
out there who have a problem with my confrontational
approach seem to have no problem with the fact that
the guy not only called way out of his area (lead making
a backcourt call) but he got the call wrong. Do you
all go out of your way to protect your partners after
they've blown a call, gone out of their way to reverse
the ball & make you look bad? All in 1 whistle.

not me
 

Dan,
I don't feel like I look bad on an idiotic call by a partner. I ain't wearin' that shoe and if someone wants to put it on me, it won't fit.
Further, I feel most fans, coaches and players will recognize who blew what.
I would deal with that partner as follows: Get the game done!

mick

Dan_ref:

Last year in my first year, I had one of these lousy partners. I mean he was over-bearing, loud, insulting and rude to me the coaches and the players. I was feeling pretty green, but I knew I was better than to deserve to be treated this way, and the coach who he T'ed for asking an honest, quiet question at half-time really didn't deserve the treatment. About three minutes into the third quarter, I was inbounding the ball on the endline (it was a VERY small gym) and there were a number of parents standing close enough that I could count their whiskers. This partner came running down and pointed out for all to hear that I wasn't supposed to bounce pass the ball on the end line (I had no intention) and I should hand it -- he demonstrated and then handed me the ball and said, "Now you try!" I accidentally looked up at one dad who rolled his eyes and started laughing. That dad taught me a lesson -- it wasn't me who looked like a fool that day.

Incidentally, I complained about the treatment I received and the fellow iwn't in the association this year, I notice. Hmmm...

JoeD1 --

On the other hand, here is my idea of a really incredibly good partner. It was about my fourth game ever -- well, I don't know, maybe sixth. I handed the ball to be inbounded, the girl with the ball reached it across the line and the defender stole it. I knew it was legal, because I had just been studying that section of the book at breakfast. (Okay, I know, my husband has already told me this is weird!) But my partner watched for a second, waited and finally blew his whistle. He waved me over and asked me why I hadn't blown it. I said I knew it was legal, he disagreed, but I held my ground. By this time the coach of the girl who had lost the ball was screaming. My partner went over to that coach and defended me! On a rule that he didn't understand! Even though he knew how inexperienced and uncertain I was! When the coach asked why he blew his whistle, he said he hadn't known that rule, and wasn't it lucky I was so well-versed? Totally non-sarcastic, completely serious. Then he took the ball, gave it to the team that had stolen it, and off we went. Wow! What a man!

Dan,
I don't know how long you have been in this game , but if any new officials take you seriously they will regret it.
Pistol

No one is saying he was not wrong, there is just a right time and place to hold the discussion.

Picture yourself in the stands and you see two refs getting at each other. What will you think the rest of the game? What will the coaches think? What would an assignor or observer think? We are the third team on the floor, and like it or not, sometimes we have sack up and continue in that situation. You don't have to like it or enjoy it, but we are all professionals, so we HAVE to do it.

I know we have some observers out there...What would you like to see your crew members do?

As a young ref myself (2nd year), I sympathize with Joe. It seems veteran officials fall into one of two groups in regard to their attitudes about working with newer refs. Some guys pass off this attitude that they shouldn't have to work with you and you're a burden (which they determine - somehow - before you've made a call). Other guys are really cool about it and try hard to be helpful and communicative.

Unfortunately, I have found a fair number from that first group. The problem is, I'm pretty sure that being confrontational with them (whether you are right or wrong) will not help the game go more smoothly. If the goal is to conduct a consistently and professionally-officiated game, I would probably not confront a guy who I know will react badly. For me, sometimes it's hard not being confrotational, but I try to put the integrity of that night's game before my pride.

I keep hearing and reading about how we need to build our ranks by encouraging and teaching younger officials. I have been a little put out, however, that some veterans (certainly not all) send a very clear message that they don't want us around.

I'm interested to hear from you vets about how you feel about newer officials.

Joe

Joe,
I became a trainer for our association because of the newer, not necessarily younger officials.
I am, however, put out by newer officials that only cracked the officials' manual for an initial testing procedure.
I enjoy working with newer officials at any level from Jr.High (middle school) to JV level, and if any questions are asked, I am happy to answer, or find the answer.
mick

I see. So your philosophy is to go along to get along,
even when your partner obviously blows a call? Let's
put aside for the moment that the guy has no business
making the call. He just made a bad call& you know it.

I should have said that by "younger" I meant "less experienced."

I agree that it is unacceptable not to have spent some serious "book time" in learning to be officials. My guess is that those officials will choose to remedy that situation as soon as they put their feet in their mouths in front of an experienced coach. I *do* work hard to understand the rules and cases, but I still find things on which I'm not perfectly clear. For me, it is the fear that I will not be prepared to rule quickly, confidently, and correctly that keeps me studying.

Without new officials the sport would be lost. I have been an active official, educator and clinition since the early 60's.The experienced guys have to WANT to work with the novices. I f they don't, they shouldn't be assigned to those games. When so assigned I feel you have to trust each other-call your own areas and learn to take the heat for your own calls and no-calls. Only in truly obvious situations should either official make a call in his partner's area . That should happen rarely. When it does , you should communicate the reason clearly to your partner and by doing so to everyone else. I saw this happen just the other day between two very experienced officials. One called double dribble ,in the grey area as the dribbler was passing from the trail's area to the lead's. The official who did not make the call immediately gave a double tweet of his whistle -rushed over to his partner and with an obvious deflection signal combined with the verbalization-"the defence deflected the ball" Changed the call and gave the ball back to the offence.GREAT officiating and PERFECT teamwork. Everyone in the place realized these guys were a good team!! Remember it can never be confrontational.
YIBB
PISTOL

JoeT,
After 9 or 10 years, I still have that "Angst". I do not know if I will ever feel totally confident with my game.
If I ever do, perhaps that is the time for me to quit taking up space on the floor.
I started officiating when I was old, and now I am that much older. I have a lot of lost time to make up, so I am aiming for quality before I have to quit.
mick

So Pistol, now that you might be singing a different tune
I'm gonna ask you how is it younger officials would regret
taking the advice I gave in this thread? Go back & read
what I said, pay close attention to the parts where I say
before reversing the leads bad call you should confer
with him. How is doing it "my way" bad advice, and
doing it "your way" "GREAT officiating and PERFECT
teamwork"? You also touch on the issue of trusting our
partners, but you might find that I did bring that up
as potentially the reason why the lead took that call away
from the less experienced trail. So, I'll say it again:
the lead made the wrong over & back call because he did not
trust his partner. The only way to stop these guys from
over-reaching is to take the call back from him. The
hardest thing for new officials (and I'll admit I am
a new official compared to someone doing it since the early
'60s) to gain is self confidence under presssure. If you
can't correct your own partner *in this case* how can you
deal with coaches? Anyway I think we've about beat this
thing to death by now.

Dan,
Maybe I misread what you have been saying-I sincerely hope so!!
Pistol

Again, the point is not to meekly accept the call by one's partner overstepping his bounds, nor to "go along to get along." The point is that there are different ways to go about resolving or dealing with the situation, and choosing a confrontational approach destined to foster animosity is less desireable and less effective overall than using our "people skills" to handle things. Our desired end result is the same (get the guy to stop calling well out of his area), but our means to getting there is quite different. I appreciate those of you who spoke up in favor of people skills.