Foul called after shot. . .

[mplagrow]

Had a sitch today that I don't think was right, but here goes. Yes, I ref, but today I was coaching 8th grade boys.

A23 (my team) puts up a floating three pointer. Whistle blown late, Lead calls push on A31 'after the shot'. He calls the basket good, and gives B the ball OOB.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not possible, is it? If I understand the rules, this is what it should have been:

1) the foul was before the basket, so dead ball
2) no foul, just incidental contact after the basket,
3) the foul was intentional after the basket.

I didn't point it out to the ref, because if I did he probably would have said, "OK, coach, I'll change it to intentional if it makes you happy!" Probably what I would do! Thoughts?

[cmathews]

It depends on when the foul occured. If it happened after the release but before the basket went in, which I am guessing is correct then they did it correctly. Before the shot is released, it is dead, no points....after it goes through, ignore it unless flagrant or intentional...

[JCurrie]

Originally posted by mplagrow
A23 (my team) puts up a floating three pointer. Whistle blown late, Lead calls push on A31 'after the shot'. He calls the basket good, and gives B the ball OOB.

Once the ball is in the air, only a player control foul can kill it (in terms of fouls). So if the foul occurred before the ball was through the hoop, the referee was correct. If the contact was after the ball was through, but before the ball was at the disposal of the thrower, then you have a dead ball.

[mplagrow]

OK, let's adjust the situation slightly. A1 shoots, while ball is in the air, B1 shoves A2 for position. Basket goes in. Count the basket, call the foul and award A the ball (or bonus shots)?

[JCurrie]

Originally posted by mplagrow
OK, let's adjust the situation slightly. A1 shoots, while ball is in the air, B1 shoves A2 for position. Basket goes in. Count the basket, call the foul and award A the ball (or bonus shots)?

Exactly

[mplagrow]

OK, OK, what about this? A1 releases a try and comes down. While the ball is in flight, B1 does the old box-out-the-shooter shove and you deem the contact worthy of a defensive foul. Can you determine the shooting action was complete? I saw this in a game once last year. I called the foul on B1, the basket was good, and my partner prepared to award the ball to A at the spot. The coach from B was howling that they couldn't have the basket and the ball, too. If anything, a shooting foul. Once the shooting action is completed, common foul? Ball goes to A?

[One-Whistle]

Originally posted by mplagrow
OK, OK, what about this? A1 releases a try and comes down. While the ball is in flight, B1 does the old box-out-the-shooter shove and you deem the contact worthy of a defensive foul. Can you determine the shooting action was complete?

A1 no longer has shooter "status" when he returns to the floor. Therefore, "box-out" contact after the shot is treated as a common foul. If shot is successful, score it.

[cmathews]

they need to be on the ground for a "substantial" amount of time before I consider the shooting action over...if it is bang bang I still have a shooter...jmho

[mplagrow]

Agreed. . .I'd rather see a kid go to the line, I think, than have a good basket and award the ball back to team A. However, if that's indeed what really happens, the rules are what they are for a reason!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by cmathews
they need to be on the ground for a "substantial" amount of time before I consider the shooting action over...if it is bang bang I still have a shooter...jmho

A player is an airborne shooter until the instant he returns to the floor. Being in touch with the floor a "substantial" amount of time is not a factor in determining whether the player who shot the ball is an airborne shooter or not. The instant one foot returns to the floor the player is not longer a shooter and if the defender then makes illegal contact the foul is a common foul by the defender.

[JCurrie]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
The instant one foot returns to the floor the player is not longer a shooter and if the defender then makes illegal contact the foul is a common foul by the defender.

I believe that it's two feet in high school, one in college.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by JCurrie

I believe that it's two feet in high school, one in college.

One foot in high school.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by JCurrie

I believe that it's two feet in high school, one in college.

It has always be one foot in NFHS and NCAA Women's and two feet in NCAA Men's, but it is now one foot in all three.

[Rodego]

Had this same play happen yesterday. I was lead off ball, A1 shoots a 3 from corner. While the ball is in the air, B3 holds A3 going in for rebound. I blow my whistle before ball goes through hoop. I meet with my partner(2 man), and we count the basket and award B the ball. Rational being, foul happened before the basket, thus you can't penalize B twice.

[One-Whistle]

Originally posted by Rodego
Had this same play happen yesterday. I was lead off ball, A1 shoots a 3 from corner. While the ball is in the air, B3 holds A3 going in for rebound. I blow my whistle before ball goes through hoop. I meet with my partner(2 man), and we count the basket and award B the ball. Rational being, foul happened before the basket, thus you can't penalize B twice.

Wrong answer.

You penalized A by not assessing the penalty for B3's foul. For example, If this is Team B's 7th or more foul would you not award the bonus FTs to A3?