Bench personnel or not

[Nevadaref]

We had a rather ugly incident here last week. An official had some problems with a player objecting to calls during the first have of a game. I do not know the extent of what was said by either one or if a warning was given. Anyway after the horn sounds ending the second quarter, while the teams are leaving the floor and the officials are moving to the center, this player runs past this official and gives him a forearm in the back. The official said he was unsure at first if it was intentional, but when he turned around and looked the kid stopped after reaching the endline and turned back and looked directly at him and laughed.
The kid was assessed a T, but it was not deemed flagrant, so he was not disqualified. I personally disagree with this, but I wasn't there.
Anyway, my question is should this T also be charged indirectly to the head coach or not? There is a case book play which addresses something like this in the hallway, but I'm not sure we can consider the players bench personnel until they have left the court. This same casebook play has a statement to the effect that all team members are considered bench personnel during intermissions. So when does that start? At the buzzer? when they reach the bench area? etc.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
We had a rather ugly incident here last week. An official had some problems with a player objecting to calls during the first have of a game. I do not know the extent of what was said by either one or if a warning was given. Anyway after the horn sounds ending the second quarter, while the teams are leaving the floor and the officials are moving to the center, this player runs past this official and gives him a forearm in the back. The official said he was unsure at first if it was intentional, but when he turned around and looked the kid stopped after reaching the endline and turned back and looked directly at him and laughed.
The kid was assessed a T, but it was not deemed flagrant, so he was not disqualified. I personally disagree with this, but I wasn't there.
Anyway, my question is should this T also be charged indirectly to the head coach or not? There is a case book play which addresses something like this in the hallway, but I'm not sure we can consider the players bench personnel until they have left the court. This same casebook play has a statement to the effect that all team members are considered bench personnel during intermissions. So when does that start? At the buzzer? when they reach the bench area? etc.

I agree with you that the player should have been charged with a flagrant technical foul. Also, the official should have had the player arrested and charged with assault and battery. Now to the heart of your question. The player is considered bench personnel; think of this as just like a technical foul before the game for dunking a dead ball. The coach receives an inderect technical foul. The foul charged to the player is considered a team foul for the second half. The second half starts with the offended team shooting two free throws and the ball for a throw-in at the division line opposite the Table.

[RookieDude]

Just for kicks and giggles...what level ball was this moron ballplayer playing?
Also, if it happened like you said, for sure I would have assesed him a Flagrant Technical Foul. If this isn't Flagrant, what is?

[Nevadaref]

This was a BV game.
MTD,
Do these plays also result in an indirect to the coach?

1. A1 misses a last second try at the end of the 1st Quarter and curses loudly after the horn has sounded and the try is over. A1 is charged with a technical foul.

2. A1 makes a last second buzzer beater to end the first quarter, but the official waves it off saying that it was not released before the horn. A1 then berates the official and is charged with a technical foul.

Thanks.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
This was a BV game.
MTD,
Do these plays also result in an indirect to the coach?

1. A1 misses a last second try at the end of the 1st Quarter and curses loudly after the horn has sounded and the try is over. A1 is charged with a technical foul.

2. A1 makes a last second buzzer beater to end the first quarter, but the official waves it off saying that it was not released before the horn. A1 then berates the official and is charged with a technical foul.

In both plays, it depends on exactly when A1 got the T. You haveta string some rules together on this one:
-Casebook play 10.4.1SitB says that all team members are bench personnel during an intermission, and if a team member gets a T during that time, the head coach is also charged with an indirect T.
-Rule 5-5-1 states that the intermission after the first quarter is 1 minute long.
-Rule 2-12-6 states that the timer has to start the stopwatch to time the 1 minute intermission.
-rule 2-12-4 says that the timer has to sound a warning signal 15 seconds before the end of the timed 1 minute intermission.

Ergo and ipso facto,in both cases if A1 received the T during the timed 1 minute intermission, the head coach gets an indirect T also. If A1 receives the T before the timer starts timing the intermission, there is no indirect T on the coach.

Almost the exact same play was posted on one of the "other" boards a coupla days ago. That play referred to a player getting a T after the first half ended. The same rules apply to all intermissions.



[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Feb 9th, 2004 at 06:57 AM]

[Nevadaref]

Yeah, after reading the casebook play, I figured it was something like that. I just don't like the capriciousness of it being up to the timer whether or not the coach loses his box.

If the timer is talking to someone for 15 secs at the end of the half and then starts the intermission clock, no indirect, but if he punches it right away and then chats, the coach sits.

BTW the official did not charge it indirectly to the coach in this incident.