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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 12:01am
ace ace is offline
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Ok,
Tonight... Before the game we're standing by the table (freshman B team game) checking books and what not. My partner had the home coach last tuesday night and went over and started to apologize. The next thing I know he's raising his voice saying I didnt mean it personally. And the coach replied - well neither did I till you told me to shut up. My parter then began giving excuses as to why his mood the way it was. I walked up to both and them and said "i thought I was here to referee players, not my co and the coach" with that they walked off from each other. I walked next door to the soph & JV games explained the situation to one of the officials whom i've never met and asked if he would mind switching with my co for the sake of game management and what not. My partner appreciated the upgrade and my new co thanked me from saving him working with a guy he doesnt work well with. He and I had a great two games together. What do I do? The A coach who had the "run-in"with my old-co asked me for the guys name while I was watching part of the varsity game and I said I wasnt really in a postion to give that information out and he said I can find out regardless which is true, he had the pay sheets, so I just told him and to get him away from me.I dont like seeing coaches after my game. Thats why I sit on the visitors side behind the table.

A Team Game... I forget if it was in the 4th or OT. But 55V fouls out. I, being the non-calling official tell the player thats 5. His coach tells him to stay where he is. The table already told the coach he had 5. And I told the coach (who was out of timeouts) said he wanted 30 seconds on the clock. I told the player he needed to start walking towards the bench. Coach said not until you give me 30 seconds. The coach then proceded to tell me I had to come inform him to his face of the 5thand tell the table to start a 30 second clock. It was a close ball game didnt feel like dealing with his bs so I just told 55 to walk to the bench. Coach calls all of his players over to the bench. I said, "coach this isnt a time out, you have 30 seconds to sub ur players not to have a "free time-out" my partner quitly whisperd to me that "John, just put 30 second time - this isnt helping the game any" so thats what we did. I did tell my co that if his players arent in the lower blocks when that clock hits zero:zero Its a delay of game.(Bluff in frustration) did that coach do anything to warrant a T? I mean - He did kind of show me up but For the sake of the game ( 2 points) i was like - screw it - lets just keep it moving)

Artifical noisemaker. I was at a school that had a big problem in a varisty game a few weeks ago. Someone had those hand clappers. I heard em twice. Never saw it. But had a good sense of the direction where from. So during the first possible time out I goto the table and ask to speak to game managament. They radio for an administrator and I get an administrator and a police officer. They confiscate the noisemaker while we were playing the game. Problem solved. After the game security guard is waiting for us at half court- whisks away into the locker room and takes us the back way into the varsity game. Over-kill if you ask me.


I had a great time tonight. I'd work with my co any night of the week!
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 12:19am
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Ace,
Don't give the coach any satisfaction of confronting you in this situation. It isn't your job to tell the player to go to the bench. It is your job to notify the player and the coach that the player has five fouls. Calmly ask the coach if he has a sub for the disqualified player. If he does, play on. If not, instruct the timer to give you 30 seconds with a horn at 20 and 30. If the coach doesn't have the sub going to the table at 30, T him up for delay of game.
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 12:46am
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Quote:
Originally posted by ace
you have 30 seconds to sub ur players not to have a "free time-out"
Actually they can use this 30 seconds anyway they want ace...even the other team can call their players over to the bench...as long as the players stay on the court.

Many Coaches do use this 30 seconds for many reasons. Just tell the Coach "that's five on so and so" and start the 30 second clock. If the Coach wants to talk to you during the entire 30 seconds...fine, as long as he/she keeps it respectful.
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 01:43am
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Go to your partner, tell him "that's five".

Partner goes to V Coach: "Coach, that's 5 on #55, you have 30 seconds to sub".

Partner turns to table: "start the 30-second clock now, please".

Then, you get as far from the V Coach as possible - even if it means not switching after the foul. Short and simple.

Then play on - FT's or possession. If V coach still wants to be a jerk, he'll have to do it in front of the whole gym. And we all know how to respond to that.
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 03:07am
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Ace, read casebook plays 2.8.4 and 10.5.1SitB on the disqualification procedure. It wasn't bs by the coach; he did know the correct procedure, and you weren't following it.

Another learning experience for you.
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 03:26am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Ace, read casebook plays 2.8.4 and 10.5.1SitB on the disqualification procedure. It wasn't bs by the coach; he did know the correct procedure, and you weren't following it.

Another learning experience for you.
Ace -- You're doing great to get as close to correct as you are. Keep learning and improving. The way we were taught is that the non-calling official does the routine, and the routine is tell the coach, tell the player, start the clock. As you said, they need to be clear onto the floor at 30, and when the sub is headed for the table, everything else needs to draw to a close.
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 06:46am
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Quote:
Originally posted by canuckrefguy
Then, you get as far from the V Coach as possible
Why?
I know a lot of Varsity Officials that love to be able to talk to the Coach about a call. They can manage the game and like to put their excellent "people" skills to work.
They are not afraid of the Coach...and they are not afraid that the Coach is going to do something stupid...if he does, that's his mistake.
You might call that baiting...I call that communicating untill the Coach dosen't want to communicate anymore.

Having said that, maybe a young official such as ace (no offense dude) might just want to "get as far from the Coach as possible"...it could get ugly.
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 10:11am
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Quote:
Originally posted by canuckrefguy
Go to your partner, tell him "that's five".

Partner goes to V Coach: "Coach, that's 5 on #55, you have 30 seconds to sub".

Partner turns to table: "start the 30-second clock now, please".

Then, you get as far from the V Coach as possible - even if it means not switching after the foul. Short and simple.

Then play on - FT's or possession. If V coach still wants to be a jerk, he'll have to do it in front of the whole gym. And we all know how to respond to that.
Canuckrefguy, he was the non calling official...
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 11:00am
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I agree with Jurassic. There. I said it. That wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be.

Stick with the rule book Ace.
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 11:56am
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Thumbs up

Hey John, everybody has pointed out how you might've handled the "fifth foul" situation better and there's some good advice there. But lemme just throw out an "Attaboy" on how you handled the first situation. That was a completely professional, unemotional, and common sensical way to deal with the situation. If you had not done what you did (including not giving up your original partner's name), you almost surely would've had some sort of "incident". Excellent job of diffusing what would have been a horrible situation.
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 12:15pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigJoe
Ace,
Don't give the coach any satisfaction of confronting you in this situation. It isn't your job to tell the player to go to the bench. It is your job to notify the player and the coach that the player has five fouls. Calmly ask the coach if he has a sub for the disqualified player. If he does, play on. If not, instruct the timer to give you 30 seconds with a horn at 20 and 30. If the coach doesn't have the sub going to the table at 30, T him up for delay of game.
Actually our procedure is to get a horn at 20 seconds but no horn at 30. After the 20 horn I'll tell the coach to get the sub. We don't like to back ourselves into a confrontation by getting the 30 horn. Then you have the other coach wanting a T even if the sub is walking to the bench. Just an idea.
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 09:20pm
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Good job Ace, but...

Coach knew his business on this one. What you want to do, is ask the table to give you 30 seconds on their watch, not the clock. Give a horn at 20 and 30. He can take it all. However, once the sub reports to the table, start the game. You don't want the time on the scoreboard as they will then act like a TO. Also, anyone else that reports to the table can come in, even if you are waiting for the first of s 2 shot foul.

BTW...I had this happen last year where the coach brought all of his players over for a quick strategy session. The opposing coach told one of his players to go over there and he stood right next to the other teams players while they were talking. The coach looked at me and I told him it was not a TO and he could be anywhere on the court. It was rather funny at the time.
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Old Thu Feb 05, 2004, 02:14am
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Quote:
Originally posted by ace
My partner had the home coach last tuesday night and went over and started to apologize.
No matter what happened last Tuesday, this is a big mistake.
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Old Thu Feb 05, 2004, 07:38am
ace ace is offline
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I still dont know what I should do about the incident... report it to my scheduler or just let it go by with how it was handled?
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Old Thu Feb 05, 2004, 11:20am
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ace,

Call Bart and tell him what happened. If he wants to do something about it, it is now his responsibility.
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