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Old Fri Jan 30, 2004, 02:00pm
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I am only a player, but I've been playing organized ball for the better part of 27 years with the highest level being Division III. I still play recreational ball and have never heard of this rule before last night.

The referee said that if one player is in the lane for 2 seconds, and as he is getting out of the lane while another player steps in for one second, a violation occurs. He said that the count continues because it is a "Team" violation.

I know that putting a hand in someone's face while they're shooting is called facemasking and is rarely called. So is this another one of those rules that exists but is never called?
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Old Fri Jan 30, 2004, 02:15pm
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Red face

I see one of three possibilities here.

1) You are joking.

2) The ref was joking.

3) The ref is a math major who has no business trying to ref.

Z
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Old Fri Jan 30, 2004, 02:32pm
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There is no team 3 second call,and "facemasking" is not a call either.

You can put your hand in the face of the shooter,what you can't do is obscure the vision of a player WITHOUT the ball,that is a T.
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Old Fri Jan 30, 2004, 03:03pm
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Zebraman: The ref WAS NOT joking. He made the call 3 times in a row and explained it to us after the game. I agree with option 3. Every team is making sure that he doesn't get another game in our league. He even had the audacity to say that he officiated at the college level.

Blindzebra: Like I said, I am only a player, but there are a few refs that have told me about the facemasking rule, and all of them ref at the college level and one is even an NBA ref. They were all referring to the shooter having the hand in the face. None of them call it, but they say it is a rule.
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Old Fri Jan 30, 2004, 03:09pm
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Please don't say you are only a player.

This is one of my pet peeves. People are constantly putting themselves down by saying that they are "only" something.

If it weren't for players, there wouldn't be a game.
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Old Fri Jan 30, 2004, 03:15pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
There is no team 3 second call,and "facemasking" is not a call either.

You can put your hand in the face of the shooter,what you can't do is obscure the vision of a player WITHOUT the ball,that is a T.
Actually, you can't do this to the shooter either. NCAA 10-7.3 says that it is a direct (unsportsmanlike) technical for "[p]urposely obstructing an opponentÂ’s vision by waving or placing hand(s) near his or her eyes."

There's no name for it in the rulebook. I've heard it referred to as "faceguarding," not "facemasking."
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Old Fri Jan 30, 2004, 04:35pm
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Wink

yes, the use of facemasking is a 15 yard penalty and lose of the ball, oh yeah but the possison arrow does not change
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Old Fri Jan 30, 2004, 05:35pm
red red is offline
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This is my first year officiating and I did not pick-up on the "hand in the face" ruling. What's interesting, when I played HS ball back in 78/79, one of the defensive techniques our coach tought us was obstructing the ball handlers eye-sight, once he picked up his dribble. It worked great!
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Old Fri Jan 30, 2004, 06:00pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by red
one of the defensive techniques our coach tought us was obstructing the ball handlers eye-sight
Remember, this is legal only when there is no contact with the contacts involved. In other words, waving your hands in front of his face is legal, poking his eye out, or grinding your fist into his eye socket is illegal. Just want everyone to be clear about this.
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Old Mon Feb 02, 2004, 09:08am
red red is offline
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So... it is legal to place your cupped hand directly in front of his face, in front of his eyes (no contact) and obstruct his eye-sight. Good, because I've been teaching my son that technique of defense.
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Old Mon Feb 02, 2004, 10:05am
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Quote:
Originally posted by red
So... it is legal to place your cupped hand directly in front of his face, in front of his eyes (no contact) and obstruct his eye-sight.
No, this is not legal, at least not under NCAA rules. See the quoted rule 10-7.3 I posted above, which says that this is a direct (unsportsmanlike) technical foul. Someone with a NF rulebook will have to say whether there is a corresponding rule.
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Old Mon Feb 02, 2004, 03:57pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
I see one of three possibilities here.

1) You are joking.

2) The ref was joking.

3) The ref is a math major who has no business trying to ref.

Z
Hey now! Easy with the math jokes! Some of us are very capable of both!
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Old Thu Feb 05, 2004, 11:10am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lotto
Quote:
Originally posted by red
So... it is legal to place your cupped hand directly in front of his face, in front of his eyes (no contact) and obstruct his eye-sight.
No, this is not legal, at least not under NCAA rules. See the quoted rule 10-7.3 I posted above, which says that this is a direct (unsportsmanlike) technical foul. Someone with a NF rulebook will have to say whether there is a corresponding rule.
I only have the 02-03 NFHS Rules Book, but it states:

Player Technical/Unsporting Foul

10-3-ART 8,d Obstructing the vision of an opponent not in control of the ball by waving hands near his/her eyes.

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Old Thu Feb 05, 2004, 12:27pm
red red is offline
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Best I can tell from the NFHS rules, this is only a technical foul if the opponent doesn't have the ball. If the opponent has the ball, it is legal as long as no contact is made.

For example, placing your hands in front of a post so he can't see to retrieve a ball - FOUL. Placing your hands in front of an opponent attempting to throw the ball - doesn't appear to be a foul.

Not that you see this very often, but I'm really curious as to how others interpret the rule.
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