Manly girls

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Encourage her to study science, not nursing but physics.

She's pretty set on marine biology. Well, as set as an 8-year-old ever gets.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

I think we can all remember when derogatory names for African-Americans or gay people were considered "common" terminology. This example is obviously not as distasteful as those were; but the point is simply that common terms do not excuse us for ignoring the sensitivities of other people.

I agree with Shorty!

He's cute,too!

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

How better to make her point? She used the exact same thinking that the male coach used. Call 'em "men". Why should anybody care? Everybody knows they're girls. . . Somehow that's not insulting.

But when she then uses the same technique -- Call him "she". Why should anybody care? Everybody knows he's a man -- you presume that it's insulting.

That's exactly her point. And while I personally wouldn't pick this fight, I don't think it's all that far-fetched.

Let's see....A uses a common yet completely innocent phrase that B finds insulting. B's reaction is to directly insult A in exactly the same context B took offense. Note that it's obvious that she expected coach A to find this insulting.

I say again, coach B is an immature boob.

[canuckrefguy]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Maryann, I don't think that the female coach had a real good beef. My only issue is that she was hushed when she referred to the male coach as "she". Why should Mark tell her to knock it off when everybody knows that he's a guy?

Chuck, I'm a very centrist-thinking person. I've tried to get in the habit of saying "3-Person Mechanics", but I find nothing patriarchal about "man-to-man defense".

I think you're missing the point here. The Male coach was just coaching his team. The female coach was being deliberately provocative with no other intent but to piss off her opponent. This kind of action, as its defined here, usually results in a Technical foul. Instead, Mark (whom I loathe to agree with, remember) chose to nip it in the bud. The right move. Absolutely.

This woman needs to pick her battles a bit better.

"Immature boob" is going a bit far, though, I think.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Note that it's obvious that she expected coach A to find this insulting.

Right, and yet somehow, when the male coach refers to the girls as boys, he expects them not to be insulted. So the guy should be insulted when refered to as a female; but the good little girls should not be insulted when refered to as male.

Again, this is not my fight. I don't think it's really that big a deal. But I think it's funny that we dismiss it so easily, as being the problem of some boob chick with a chip on her shoulder.

[TriggerMN]

The more the world moves towards political correctness, the further it moves away from common sense. I'm surprised this "womyn" coach didn't teach a person-to-person defense. Every time I hear that I want to puke.

It's a general freaking term, people. This coach needs to spend more time coaching and less time taking up causes. Otherwise, let someone else coach who is willing to work hard to better the team.

[robertclasalle]

Man-to-man defense, whose man are you covering, two-man officiating, blah-blah-blah, this has nothing to do with sexism or sexual discrimination. It's just a word, not an idealism, and it prevents us from saying really stupid sounding comments like "which opponent are you guarding", or "opponent-to-opponent (or person-to-person) defense." How about when my daughter's team scrimmages against the boys team (girl to boy defense?) And why does Coach B believe that Coach A's comments are demeaning? Does Coach B believe that men are inferior to women? Does Coach B believe that referring to Coach A (a man) as a woman is derogatory and offensive? My opinion: Coach A needs to be more polite and act like a lady. Coach B needs to suck it up and take it like a man. P.S.: I hope and pray that none of us ever have to worry about anything really important, like death, illness, divorce, our children's health, etc. P.P.S. to Coach B: Why do we refer to my boat as "she" when my wife has absolutely nothing to do with the boat? And if God is reading these posts, He (or She) might get really unhappy with us all.

[Edited by robertclasalle on Jan 26th, 2004 at 10:32 PM]

[Dan_ref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Right, and yet somehow, when the male coach refers to the girls as boys, he expects them not to be insulted. So the guy should be insulted when refered to as a female; but the good little girls should not be insulted when refered to as male.

Again, this is not my fight. I don't think it's really that big a deal. But I think it's funny that we dismiss it so easily, as being the problem of some boob chick with a chip on her shoulder.

Go back and read what I wrote...I'll wait here...OK, did you see where I said she's a woman with a chip on her shoulder? Did I say she's a b!tch, on the rag, a shrew, a hag, a witch, a dried up hysterical old **** who needs nothing but a good ****ing? No, I didn't. What I said is she's an immature boob, a description that defies gender classification, IMO.

Anyway, this all reminds me of a joke. Enjoy.

A man and his wife were working in their garden one day and
the man looks over at his wife and says: "Your butt is getting really big, I mean really big. I bet your butt is bigger than the barbecue."

With that he proceeded to get a measuring tape and measure
the grill and then went over to where his wife was working
and measured his wife's bottom."Yes, I was right, your butt is two inches wider than the barbecue!!!"

The woman chose to ignore her husband. Later that night in
bed, the husband is feeling a little frisky. He makes some
advances towards his wife who completely brushes him off.

"What's wrong?" he asks.

She answers: "Do you really think I'm going to fire up this
big-@ss grill for one little weenie?"

[OverAndBack]

I have never heard a coach of a female basketball team (or soccer team for that matter) use anything but the term "man to man" (specifically for defense, obviously) or "man marking" (more in soccer). They do it and admit that it's just the way it is.

I think it's partially because it takes fewer syllables to say "man to man" than "person to person" (which sounds like you need an operator to complete it) or "woman to woman."

Or it could be that "man to man defense" is a concept and has nothing whatsoever to do with gender. That's just what it got named because the sport has, until the last, what, 50 years or so? been played and coached predominantly by men. Who got to make up the rules and the terminology.

The coach described here is the first coach or player of a female team that I have ever heard of not being on board with the term "man" to refer to a female player in a strategic sense.

I don't think it's an argument you can win, though. I would have said "Coach, to be honest with you, it's my understanding that it's a common coaching term that has nothing whatsoever to do with the gender or the perception of the femininity or masculinity of any of the players on the court. If it's something you feel strongly about, all I can tell you is you should take it up with your coaches' association if you have one, and if there's a consensus that it needs to be changed, take it further."

What I would then think, but would not say, would be "Good luck with that."

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by canuckrefguy
"Immature boob" is going a bit far, though, I think.

I agree. She an "immature boobs!"

If, and when, I ever work 3 man with a female partner, I'll refer to it as three person if she would like me to. But until then, it's three man because that's all I've ever worked.

Without all this PC, I guess we'll have to start using the erm he/she or his/hers every time we have a discussion about players or coaches that we don't know the sex of.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

I agree. She an "immature boobs!"

If, and when, I ever work 3 man with a female partner, I'll refer to it as three person if she would like me to. But until then, it's three man because that's all I've ever worked.

Without all this PC, I guess we'll have to start using the erm he/she or his/hers every time we have a discussion about players or coaches that we don't know the sex of.

Sometimes you can tell right off the bat.

[just another ref]

There was a quote in Sports Illustrated a long time ago, when women's basketball was first getting a lot of national attention. A coach, a woman I believe, but I couldn't swear to it, when asked about her defense said, "We play man to man. Person to person is a telephone call."

[Mark Padgett]

One reason Coach B got admonished was that she was yelling instructions at the other team's players.

BTW - there was nothing immature about her boobs.

OK, Juulie - rip me.

[canuckrefguy]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Sometimes you can tell right off the bat.

Holy crap, Dan....any excuse to drag that pic out again, eh?

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
One reason Coach B got admonished was that she was yelling instructions at the other team's players.

BTW - there was nothing immature about her boobs.

OK, Juulie - rip me.

My kinda coach!