FT Lane Violation Situation

[WindyCityRef]

Heard about this from the guys who were going to do the varsity game the other night. I did the Soph game and inbetween games they told us about this:

2 secs left in game, B up by 3, A at the FT line.

A1 hits the first FT. When A1 gets the ball for his next shot, B1 jumps into the lane as soon as A1 has the ball at his disposal. A1 misses the FT, same thing happens on the next three attempts. Refs did nothing, except call the FT lane violation each time.

We talked about it and my first impression was that B should have been given a T for turning the game into a farce. hehe. We dicided a better idea would be to give a delay of game warning on the first one, and a T if they do it again. I'm not sure this is correct either.

Any ideas, the coaches around here are copy cats, and since the officials at that game did nothing, I'm sure we'll see it again. I want to be ready if 'I' do.

[RookieDude]

When I first read this I was wondering why on Earth Team B would want to keep violating. Duh, must be late!

Obviously, Team B is violating to keep Team A from purposely missing a shot in hopes of a rebound and a made shot to win the game.

Well, what if Team A keeps trying to miss...and Team B keeps violating? I would say you could call that an "actionless contest". (use to be a term used for something different) You could then advise Team B not to violate again on purpose...I wouldn't think you could advise Team A not to miss a shot on purpose, as many teams miss more FTs than they make...even when they are TRYING to make the shot. Besides, violating and missing a shot are two seperate issues.

Oh yeah, Rule 2-3..."The referee shall make decisions on any points not specifically covered in the rules."

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by WindyCityRef
Heard about this from the guys who were going to do the varsity game the other night. I did the Soph game and inbetween games they told us about this:

2 secs left in game, B up by 3, A at the FT line.

A1 hits the first FT. When A1 gets the ball for his next shot, B1 jumps into the lane as soon as A1 has the ball at his disposal. A1 misses the FT, same thing happens on the next three attempts. Refs did nothing, except call the FT lane violation each time.

We talked about it and my first impression was that B should have been given a T for turning the game into a farce. hehe. We dicided a better idea would be to give a delay of game warning on the first one, and a T if they do it again. I'm not sure this is correct either.

Any ideas, the coaches around here are copy cats, and since the officials at that game did nothing, I'm sure we'll see it again. I want to be ready if 'I' do.

I don't have the books here, but 10-something has a T for "repeated violations of the throw-in" and precedes it with "SUCH AS the following acts"

I'd tell the coach and the player that it wouldn't be allowed, and issue a T if it happened again.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by bob jenkins
I don't have the books here, but 10-something has a T for "repeated violations of the throw-in" and precedes it with "SUCH AS the following acts"

Bob, that was my first thought as well, but can we apply that clause to repeated violations of the free throw?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Bob, that was my first thought as well, but can we apply that clause to repeated violations of the free throw?

Bob is referring to R10-3-3 which says "a player shall not delay the game by acts such as:". It then lists several illustrations, including one that does refer to a FT situation. The way I read that section is that the preamble above is not all inclusive, but just lists some of the acts that could delay the game. I can't think of any reason that you couldn't apply this section, as Bob has suggested. The acts on the FT were delaying the game.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jan 22nd, 2004 at 10:10 AM]

[Hawks Coach]

This is very specifically covered by the rules for this precise situation. Warn them, then T them. The second time he did it would be obvious enough for me to know that they were trying to violate.

By the way, this has the added effect of slowing their ultimate entry into the lane because they will fear the tech, so they pay doubly for this unsporting behavior.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Bob, that was my first thought as well, but can we apply that clause to repeated violations of the free throw?

We could, but not per the application of that specific throw-in rule.

I don't think I'd call the T here (shock to those who know me). I see this situation as using the rules to your advantage - not bending the rules.

[Bart Tyson]

How about if we call a violation if team B gets rebound and oops my bad if team A gets rebound.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

We could, but not per the application of that specific throw-in rule.

I don't think I'd call the T here (shock to those who know me). I see this situation as using the rules to your advantage - not bending the rules.

Aren't you a scorekeeper? You don't call anything.

If a team is repeatedly violating a rule to gain an advantage, then there's goping to be a penalty, even if the specific situation was not thought of by the rule / case book editors.

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
I don't think I'd call the T here (shock to those who know me). I see this situation as using the rules to your advantage-not bending the rules.

Mark...I hear you're a pretty smart guy...so just how long are you going to sit at that scoretable, watching violation after violation? 1 hour, 2 hours...?

There has to be some kind of answer to a situation when a team "uses the rules" to create these types of situations...and the answer is warn them, then take appropriate actions. i.e. T.

At least that's what a 14 year Veteran told me.

[Mark Dexter]

When I'm on the book, I'll write down the T if it's called - I don't argue *much* from the table.

If I'm reffing, however, I don't think I'd call the T.

[Bart Tyson]

I wouldn't have a problem with a T after they have been warned. The rules say you cannot violate the lane. If they are intentionally violating the rules, I think you can easily make a caes for the T. Its unsporting.

[chasbo]

WindyCityRef- would this have been the Maine South/Notre Dame game a couple of weekends ago? My daughter was there and next day in class asked the player who was doing the free throw violating if he was doing it on purpose and he said he was just doing what the coach told him. I explained to her what was going on and told het that I would have warned and then T'd the coach.

[tjchamp]

How about rule 8-1-c. "Following a violation by one or by both teams, if that team(s) continues to delay it is a technical foul."

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by chasbo
I explained to her what was going on and told het that I would have warned and then T'd the coach.

Can't T the coach. The player is the one delaying the game, and the player therefore has to be the one that's gotta get the T.