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Sun Jan 11, 2004, 01:33pm
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OK...now that this thing has been in place for a season and a half, how many have you had? Is it effective (does it work better than the T)?
I had none last year, and I've had 2 this year. Once the coach said nothing, but yesterday's JV coach *****ed about it for a whole quarter...even came out to "help" me dab up a wet spot and tried to convince me that I missed it!!! It was at that point I told him that "WE" were finished discussing that call!!! 
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Sun Jan 11, 2004, 01:57pm
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I've had about two over the last few years.
I think it's the greatest thing since AP - and has probably prevented a lot of nastiness since its inception.
__________________
HOMER: Just gimme my gun. CLERK: Hold on, the law requires a five-day waiting period; we've got run a background check... HOMER: Five days???? But I'm mad NOW!!
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Sun Jan 11, 2004, 02:42pm
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Not yet.
Never have called one or seen it called in a regular game. I called it once in a "off-season" tournament right before the season started. And that was the same year they put the rule in.
Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
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Sun Jan 11, 2004, 03:58pm
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Quote:
Dude...you don't have to get angry at a Coach when he is questioning your call...just suggest to him that it was in your judgement that the player did so and so. If you think you might have "kicked" the call...tell the Coach and move on. Of course you don't want to be telling the Coach you kicked a call every couple minutes. Maybe once a game. In this case it was your judgment that the player excessively swung his arms. Rule 9-13-1 Tell him so and move on. Don't take the B****ing for a whole quarter though! Sheesh. RD
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Sun Jan 11, 2004, 04:59pm
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I have called maybe 4 or 5 elbow violations in the past two years.... Very helpful option to intervene earlier.
As for the coach's B****ing, explain what you saw and then move on. Additional gripes would get the universal stop sign; and further redirectives, if necessary.
__________________
"Stay in the game!"
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Sun Jan 11, 2004, 06:06pm
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I have a situation related to this that I would like some input on: If player A1 gets a rebound and elbows A2, a: in the shoulder, b: in the face and A2 is laying in a pool of blood with a broken nose.
Is there a call? Other than blowing the whistle for an injured player?
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Sun Jan 11, 2004, 06:19pm
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Quote:
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Sun Jan 11, 2004, 06:31pm
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O.K. lets say that A1 rebounds the ball and gets the elbows up which most coaches teach from day 1. In my mind the rebounder is responsible for contact when the elbows are extended away from the body!!! But for the sake of discussion let's say that he is trying to clear himself with the elbows extended parallel to the floor. I really would like to hear other officials views on this subject.
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Sun Jan 11, 2004, 06:48pm
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Quote:
If A swings the elbows it is a violation on A. If there is contact intiated by A as they turn with the elbows extended as you describe then I would go with PC.
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Sun Jan 11, 2004, 07:03pm
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Doh! I didn't notice that. That'll teach me to read the posts carefully.
I've got nothing, unless A1 is swinging the elbows. If he just has them parallel and isn't actually turning them, and A2 smackes into A1's elbows, nothing. If he swings them, I might call a violation. OTOH, I might just consider the injury to A2 to be punishment enough. It's hard to say without seeing the play. aw
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Sun Jan 11, 2004, 07:14pm
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I had this situation in a boys varsity game friday night. The player was clearing himself with the elbows out after a rebound. He hit his own player in the back of the head. He didn't get hurt or anything, but it got me thinking on the way home. What do we consider swinging of the elbows? Is clearing themselves with the elbows parallel to the floor swinging the elbows? The elbows go back and forth but aren't necessarily swinging. I still think that the rebounder is responsible for contact with outstretched elbows. The defender has a right to the spot even if it is right adjacent to the rebounder.
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Sun Jan 11, 2004, 07:20pm
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To me, if the elbows are moving laterally, rather than straight up and down, in a motion that could cause contact, it's a violation. If he just comes up, reflexively, with his elbows and smacks his teammate in the chin (up and down elbow movement), I've probably got nothing. If he hits an opponent, I've probably got a PC either way (depending on severity of contact).
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Sun Jan 11, 2004, 07:25pm
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To me, "clearing" is just what the rule is designed to prevent. If a coach is teaching that, he's at fault when I call it. If a player extends the elbows to protect the ball, fine. But if he swings them (any discernable lateral movement other than a full-body pivot). I suppose I'm looking to see if he is swiveling his hips rather than pivoting on his pivot foot axis. Or, if the arms move and the rest of the body does not. If he pivots, and the elbows move with the rest of his body, no violation.
I'm still debating on the hip swivel, however.
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