3-3 Defense

[Forksref]

Along the lines of numbers of players: I was coaching a JV team years ago. As happens often with JV teams in our area, because of injuries, players moving up to varsity, and players still on the floor for the sophomore game, I had only 5 players in the lockerroom ready for the start of our game. One of the players asked: "Who is starting?"

Needless to say, it was a tough season.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by zebraman
I agree that you have to give a T if you discover 6 players while the ball is live. I also agree that it is just as much the officials fault as it is the coaches.

Z

I disagree. We do it as a courtesy. The responsibility is on the coach/team. In general, a T must be issued.

I had it happen about 2 years ago...but I had counted 5. It turned out the player ran onto the floor (behind me) after the ball was put into play. However, we simply blew the whistle and got her off the floor. Normally, I'd T that, but the other team was winning by over 40 points in the 4th quarter. The other coach politely asked with a smile "That'd be a T in another game, right?" to which I responsed "Absolutely". There are times when it is right to ignore things like this.

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by RefRx
That is an interesting statement. What do you do in football if you count 12, blow a whistle and have them leave the field? Don't see the difference in this or most technical situations. Give a T and move on. I will agree that we should have caught it prior to the throw-in and I try to always count, at every level, especially lower levels. But if I don't, the repsonsibility is on the coach and we take away from the other team by ignoring it.

Difference in football is officials do not control substitutions, nor when the ball is snapped. Plays start when the offense is ready (assuming ball is spotted!). Players can come and go at will.

In basketball, officials control the entry of players onto the court, and can also make sure that enough players leave the court. and officials hand the ball to the inbounder to make the ball live again. So it IS very different.

That said, in general you need to T this. But I can understand allowances for level of play, especially little kids in rec ball. Laugh at the mistake and get the kid off the court. If the mistake was a couple of minutes old and allowed a team an unfair advantage for a chunk of time, hit them with the T anyway though, even at the younger level. Fairness demands this. If it is young kids rec and you catch it right after the inbounds, no change in possession or score, stop play fix it and move on. You haven't really hurt anybody in this case.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Happened to me last month.

HS Varsity, very fast paced end to a 20 point lop-sided game... 25 seconds left but both teams are playing strong and fast, hurrying after each basket is made.

Following a basket, the ball bounds down court. Scoring team catches the ball near the top of the key and rolls it towards me standing on the endline.

Inbounding team has a player out of bounds waiting for ball.

I touch the ball with my foot to push it towards OOB player. Ball rolls parallel to endline 2-3 feet inbounds. Player bends to reach ball. Grabs ball and raises. Falls forward with one foot (no attempt to pass) and touches inbounds. Immediately jumps backward OOB and now makes inbounds pass.

Everyone sees the violation... would you call it?

What if it was a 2 point game?

[Hawks Coach]

DTTB
I got nothing on that play - the ball was i/b because you made a sloppy push and a player is trying to get it and then inbound it. I would just figure ball wasn't quite at disposal when the player stepped in and play on.

[Adam]

Delay of game on scoring team?
Otherwise, I've got a hard time calling this if my throw knocks him off balance.
Probably nothing either way (blowout or close game)

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach

Difference in football is officials do not control substitutions, nor when the ball is snapped. Plays start when the offense is ready (assuming ball is spotted!). Players can come and go at will.

In basketball, officials control the entry of players onto the court, and can also make sure that enough players leave the court. and officials hand the ball to the inbounder to make the ball live again. So it IS very different.

That said, in general you need to T this. But I can understand allowances for level of play, especially little kids in rec ball. Laugh at the mistake and get the kid off the court. If the mistake was a couple of minutes old and allowed a team an unfair advantage for a chunk of time, hit them with the T anyway though, even at the younger level. Fairness demands this. If it is young kids rec and you catch it right after the inbounds, no change in possession or score, stop play fix it and move on. You haven't really hurt anybody in this case.

That's also a good point, but if it happens in football at the lower levels then we tell coaches to count their players. If they don't have them off flag.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by RefRx
That is an interesting statement. What do you do in football if you count 12, blow a whistle and have them leave the field?

You probably never work another football game. . . in Canada (which is where JugglingRef officiates )

[Rich]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

In the time that I've become "a decent ref," I have no memory of ever having to call a T for this.

I count how many players go off and how many go on the court. Then, I re-count, many times twice, to make sure there are 5 for each team on the court. However, I also officiate football and I count (twice) to 12 every play, so for me counting is no big deal.

Sure, it's a T. However, in my mind, the ref screwed up just as much as the coach.

It can happen, even to decent refs. I had it happen earlier this season -- I felt bad about it, sure, as preventive officiating is great, but in the end WHO PUT SIX ON THE FLOOR?

Try not to let it happen, but if it does, you have to call a technical.

Rich

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
It can happen, even to decent refs. I had it happen earlier this season -- I felt bad about it, sure, as preventive officiating is great, but in the end WHO PUT SIX ON THE FLOOR?

Try not to let it happen, but if it does, you have to call a technical.

Rich

I completely agree. Maybe I am lucky. [I am going to pause for a sec to knock on some wood.]

[Rich]

I hadn't had it happen since my second year of officiating HS basketball, which was, ummm, not recently. Then it happened in a boys varsity game this season.

Hopefully it will be that long until it happens again.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
DTTB
I got nothing on that play - the ball was i/b because you made a sloppy push and a player is trying to get it and then inbound it. I would just figure ball wasn't quite at disposal when the player stepped in and play on.

Thanks Coach.

I didn't call anything. Of course the losing coach wanted the call to be made... but only for a couple of seconds. I made the statement to him that it was my fault that it happened. His response was that "It's still a violation."

Everything ended well.