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-   -   Long JV Games - Just some random babble (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/11549-long-jv-games-just-some-random-babble.html)

Rich Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:45am

Just got home at 11PM from my varsity boys game.

Fourth quarter of the JV game started at 6:55PM -- we always start dressing at the end of the third quarter. Varsity game scheduled to start at 7:30PM. We take the floor (20 minute warmups) at exactly 7:30PM.

How exactly does a 7 minute quarter of basketball take 35 minutes? How does a non-OT GAME take more than 1:30?

Just venting :)

Actually, come to think of it, after starting at 7:50PM the game was finished by 9:05PM, which isn't that shabby. 60 mile drive was the killer ;)

It is 3 degrees as I type this. How is the snow in Portland?

rainmaker Wed Jan 07, 2004 01:32am

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Just got home at 11PM from my varsity boys game.

Fourth quarter of the JV game started at 6:55PM -- we always start dressing at the end of the third quarter. Varsity game scheduled to start at 7:30PM. We take the floor (20 minute warmups) at exactly 7:30PM.

How exactly does a 7 minute quarter of basketball take 35 minutes? How does a non-OT GAME take more than 1:30?

Just venting :)

Actually, come to think of it, after starting at 7:50PM the game was finished by 9:05PM, which isn't that shabby. 60 mile drive was the killer ;)

It is 3 degrees as I type this. How is the snow in Portland?

Official temp around 20 something. Wind chill driving temp down around 0. Three layers of clothes, and a full time forced air gas heating system, and still feeling chilly. Snow everywhere, with a thick crust of ice on top. Haven't had weather like this for about 10 or 15 years.

And the funny part is that I'm still craving ice cream. How bizarre is that!?!? (And you can skip the pickle/craving/pregnancy jokes. Im too old and have too many kids to think they're funny!)

JV girls' games CAN take forever. I've been doing a lot of them the last couple of seasons, and I sympathize. They foul a lot right at the beginning, and right near the end, like the varsity players do, but that middle adjusting-to-how-tight-the-refs-are-calling-it stretch never happens. If you try to back off the calls a little, they just end up in a rugby scrum. I don't pity the varsity refs that work after me though. Even though they're starting late, they're still gonna have a better game than we did.

Rich Wed Jan 07, 2004 01:49am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Just got home at 11PM from my varsity boys game.

Fourth quarter of the JV game started at 6:55PM -- we always start dressing at the end of the third quarter. Varsity game scheduled to start at 7:30PM. We take the floor (20 minute warmups) at exactly 7:30PM.

How exactly does a 7 minute quarter of basketball take 35 minutes? How does a non-OT GAME take more than 1:30?

Just venting :)

Actually, come to think of it, after starting at 7:50PM the game was finished by 9:05PM, which isn't that shabby. 60 mile drive was the killer ;)

It is 3 degrees as I type this. How is the snow in Portland?

Official temp around 20 something. Wind chill driving temp down around 0. Three layers of clothes, and a full time forced air gas heating system, and still feeling chilly. Snow everywhere, with a thick crust of ice on top. Haven't had weather like this for about 10 or 15 years.

And the funny part is that I'm still craving ice cream. How bizarre is that!?!? (And you can skip the pickle/craving/pregnancy jokes. Im too old and have too many kids to think they're funny!)

JV girls' games CAN take forever. I've been doing a lot of them the last couple of seasons, and I sympathize. They foul a lot right at the beginning, and right near the end, like the varsity players do, but that middle adjusting-to-how-tight-the-refs-are-calling-it stretch never happens. If you try to back off the calls a little, they just end up in a rugby scrum. I don't pity the varsity refs that work after me though. Even though they're starting late, they're still gonna have a better game than we did.

It was a JV boys game.

Our game was better for the most part. Total of 6 fouls in the first half, I believe. Visitors shooting the double bonus the second half after home falls behind about 10-12 and starts the foul fest with about 3:30 left.

Visitors led 14-0. Final score -- visitors by 7. Last Friday night the visitors were up 14-0 and lost 42-34.

Interesting week.


rainmaker Wed Jan 07, 2004 01:57am

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
JV girls' games CAN take forever. I've been doing a lot of them the last couple of seasons, and I sympathize. They foul a lot right at the beginning, and right near the end, like the varsity players do, but that middle adjusting-to-how-tight-the-refs-are-calling-it stretch never happens. If you try to back off the calls a little, they just end up in a rugby scrum. I don't pity the varsity refs that work after me though. Even though they're starting late, they're still gonna have a better game than we did.
It was a JV boys game.

Yes, I see. One does get a little one-track minded when one does only four boys games the whole season. Is JV boys always long like that, the way JV girls tend to be? I haven't done enough JV boys, and haven't watched enough JV boys, to have a feel for that game.

Larks Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:16am

A different Perspective
 
My schedule this year is mostly JV boys or Boys F / JV double headers. What I see is not the JV game per se that screws up the schedule...its the triple header.

Having said that, please dont complain. We do the best we can down here in JV land to keep em moving guys but the game dictates the time, not us. If we start calling games purely to keep you on time at the varsity level, I am sure JV coaches and probably the AD will complain to the assignors about the hackfest we just allowed...which in turn will keep me toiling even longer at the JV level.

There are guys like me who would love to have a varsity schedule full of games that start 30 minutes late. In my area on Friday night there are about 50 Varsity games ...thats 150 class 1 officials out of about 300 eligible in the area. That's 150 guys waiting to get the opportunity.

Covet your schedule Rich.

Larks
VIT

Rich Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:40am

Re: A different Perspective
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Larks
My schedule this year is mostly JV boys or Boys F / JV double headers. What I see is not the JV game per se that screws up the schedule...its the triple header.

Having said that, please dont complain. We do the best we can down here in JV land to keep em moving guys but the game dictates the time, not us. If we start calling games purely to keep you on time at the varsity level, I am sure JV coaches and probably the AD will complain to the assignors about the hackfest we just allowed...which in turn will keep me toiling even longer at the JV level.

There are guys like me who would love to have a varsity schedule full of games that start 30 minutes late. In my area on Friday night there are about 50 Varsity games ...thats 150 class 1 officials out of about 300 eligible in the area. That's 150 guys waiting to get the opportunity.

Covet your schedule Rich.

Larks
VIT

Oh, I know what it's like, believe me. And mostly, my original post was toungue-in-cheek. There isn't much practical difference between getting home at 10:30 and getting home at 11. We even stopped for food on the way home :)

Sometimes the games are just hackfests, I realize. JV games can range from "almost like Varsity" to "downright brutal." When I moved into the area last season, I worked a handful of JV games to increase my visibility (where I live, we have to call schools and commissioners to get work and drum up our own schedule -- the more aggressive and the farther you're willing to drive, the more games you get -- for example, this Friday night we will be going over 90 miles one way for a girls game that just happens to be #1 vs. #2 in the conference they're in, which is kinda cool). I had more problems and more "abuse" working those JV games than I have had in all my varsity games here.

Now, about this specific game: We watched the third quarter of this game and there were a lot of fouls called in the quarter. Many seemed to be unnecessary flow-stealing fouls, but that's just the opinion of the guy in the cheap seats. Also, the thing that struck me was that when we arrived at 6:30PM the game was already at halftime and had just started at 6PM. Not strange that we started late, but strange in that the second half took a long time.

Most schools here seem to have 2 gyms and if there's a freshman game they play those at the same time as the JV in the auxiliary gym.

Rich

Mark Dexter Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:46am

In high school, we did doubleheaders (JV/V) all the time - rarely problems with timing.

Now in college, we usually just do one V game on a given night. Rarely do they go over 2 hours except, of course, when there's a doubleheader.

Danvrapp Wed Jan 07, 2004 01:14pm

I might have the record
 
I worked a <b>quadruple</b> overtime game last year. JV started at 6:00, varsity crew took the floor at 8:45.

Needless to say, my partner and I didn't make many friends that evening! :)

SteveF Wed Jan 07, 2004 01:49pm

Couple weeks ago I had the varsity game that would never end. Actually it was JV/V double header. JV game took just over an hour. Varsity game was close and during the last minute or so of the game both teams decided to foul and take all of their time outs. Both teams in bonus so you have a couple of seconds tic off and walk to one end and shoot. Time out. Couple more seconds tic off walk to the other end shoot. Time out. Well you can see where it takes 15 minutes to play just a little over a minutes worth of ball at that pace.

Lotto Wed Jan 07, 2004 01:59pm

Re: I might have the record
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Danvrapp
I worked a <b>quadruple</b> overtime game last year. JV started at 6:00, varsity crew took the floor at 8:45.

Does this mean you bought the varsity crew 4 beers each?

Rich Wed Jan 07, 2004 02:15pm

Re: Re: I might have the record
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Lotto
Quote:

Originally posted by Danvrapp
I worked a <b>quadruple</b> overtime game last year. JV started at 6:00, varsity crew took the floor at 8:45.

Does this mean you bought the varsity crew 4 beers each?

How could they when the bars closed before the V game ended? :)

I haven't had an overtime game in 2 seasons. Now that I've written that, let's see how long it takes for it to happen. I love games that end up going overtime. At least they're close and someone has a shot to win at the end, which beats a 40-point blowout any day of the week.

Jurassic Referee Wed Jan 07, 2004 03:55pm

Re: I might have the record
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Danvrapp
I worked a <b>quadruple</b> overtime game last year. JV started at 6:00, varsity crew took the floor at 8:45.

Needless to say, my partner and I didn't make many friends that evening!

I did a Varsity boys regional once- about 25 years ago- that went 7 overtimes. Might have been the most enjoyable game that I ever did.

RefRx Wed Jan 07, 2004 05:24pm

NF allows for the non-varsity games to be shortened by consent of the coaches and I have had that happen to enable the Varsity to start on time. A lot of the Frosh/JV games seem to take forever and the skill level of play dictates a lot of that. But as officials we also tend to drag the game out, as the comment above mentioned, by WALKING to report, to shoot a foul, to talk to a partner instead of hustling. If we hustle, the kids will hustle. (But they still seem to last forever)

Jay R Wed Jan 07, 2004 06:04pm

I have never had a game go longer than one overtime thankfully. Although as you know, some regular games drag on forever.

This summer, I umpired a playoff game that lasted 18 innings. We started at 2:00 and got off the field at 7:15. I made 35 dollars and my wife was pissed for two days.

Larks Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:33pm

Re: Re: I might have the record
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by Danvrapp
I worked a <b>quadruple</b> overtime game last year. JV started at 6:00, varsity crew took the floor at 8:45.

Needless to say, my partner and I didn't make many friends that evening!

I did a Varsity boys regional once- about 25 years ago- that went 7 overtimes. Might have been the most enjoyable game that I ever did.


Call any force outs?

:)

Rich Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:25pm

Re: Re: Re: I might have the record
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Larks
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by Danvrapp
I worked a <b>quadruple</b> overtime game last year. JV started at 6:00, varsity crew took the floor at 8:45.

Needless to say, my partner and I didn't make many friends that evening!

I did a Varsity boys regional once- about 25 years ago- that went 7 overtimes. Might have been the most enjoyable game that I ever did.


Call any force outs?

:)

Any lack of action calls?

How many times did you have to cross over on the court to get to the Cadillac position during a live ball?

I wonder which things we do now as a matter of course we (or our granchildren :) ) will find silly?

Dan_ref Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:04am

Re: Re: Re: Re: I might have the record
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Quote:

Originally posted by Larks
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by Danvrapp
I worked a <b>quadruple</b> overtime game last year. JV started at 6:00, varsity crew took the floor at 8:45.

Needless to say, my partner and I didn't make many friends that evening!

I did a Varsity boys regional once- about 25 years ago- that went 7 overtimes. Might have been the most enjoyable game that I ever did.


Call any force outs?

:)

Any lack of action calls?

How many times did you have to cross over on the court to get to the Cadillac position during a live ball?

I wonder which things we do now as a matter of course we (or our granchildren :) ) will find silly?

I know my kids will tell their kids how drunk I got New Years Eve...this aint what you had in mind, is it?

ChuckElias Thu Jan 08, 2004 09:25am

I was just talking about this the other night with the JV officials before my game. (Talking about long JV games, that is; not Dan's inebriation!) Having done my share of JV games, and a few varsity games, I see both sides. As a varsity official, you hate to sit there while the JV games goes over by 5, 10, 15 minutes.

But you simply cannot ask those JV officials to do a half-uh. . . to rush the game for convenience sake. They are trying to impress an assignor just as much as the varsity guys (maybe moreso!). It's not fair to the JV officials or to the JV players to ask the officials to give less than their normal 100% effort.

Just some random babble from me, too, I guess. JV officials should do the best game they can. The varsity guys can wait a few minutes.

Rich Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:33am

I agree, Chuck. Most of my original post was, um, shall we say. tongue-in-cheek? :)

The one comment I couldn't believe was that they'd shorten the JV game to start the varsity on time -- I mean, there's already too much of an attitude that the JV game is meaningless -- let's just compound that attitude. Reminds me too much of the Bad News Bears movie where they played in the Houston Astrodome and they wanted to kill the little game they were playing because it ran over. LET THEM PLAY.

Now, let's be serious for a moment. Many times the JV/Soph/Frosh game runs over because the JV/Soph/Frosh officials call every bit of contact (and some times when there is no contact) a foul. The concept of advantage/disadvantage has not made its way down to the JV/Soph/Frosh level in many of the games here, so the game gets slowed down even more due to unnecessary stoppages of play and extra bonus situations.

I also notice that there are quite a bit more fouls called at the varsity level in girls play. I try to apply advantage/disadvantage the same way in those games, but it seems to take less contact in many instances for an advantage to be gained. Also, there are a lot more fouls where the girls play defense with their hands rather than by getting in position. As always, that is just my experience.

ChuckElias Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:36am

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
I agree, Chuck. Most of my original post was, um, shall we say. tongue-in-cheek? :)
I understood that, Rich. My comments were not directed at your post; more just a recounting of my conversation in the locker room.

Kevzebra Thu Jan 08, 2004 03:47pm

Had one the other night in which the JV's called 44 fouls in the game. Saw the third quarter. They called every bump ect. Did not ask if we saw anything that could help them. Note to JV guys...ASK the varsity officials to help you out (if you trust them)! Stay and watch 1/2 of the varsity game....ask questions...LEARN!



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