Odd ball plays!

[BktBallRef]

Had two things happen tonight that I've never had happen before.

Girls game:
A1 hits a basket.
Ball goes through the net and bounces toward the FT line.
B1 grabs the ball and starts up the floor.
I know what to do.
Tweet!

Boys game:
I call shooting foul on B1.
Report, go to C.
L administers to A1.
A1 bounces ball.
He bounces some more.
He spends it in his hands.
He bounces it again.
"Hmmmmm" thinks I.
"This sure is taking a long time."
Finally shoots.
Second shot, I start counting.
"...9, 10, 11, 12."
I figured 12 was long enough.
Coach yells, "I told you somebody was gonna call you for that, sooner or later."

[Dan_ref]

HS game over the weekend, team A drove about 75 miles to play team B (they don't know each other).

Start of second half, A's ball, coach A calls me over -

"Hey ref, we're gonna try a trick play, OK?"
"OK" :shrug:

I know what's coming, never seen it before, but interested to see if it would work. I stroll over to pard (R), he asks what did the coach want, I tell him A's gonna do something goofy. OK. :shrug: :shrug:

I go to A's endline, A goes to the other end, B follows them setting up in a nice tight zone. Pard bounces ball to A1, A2 breaks down the floor, easy layup. Team A fans are clapping and laughing in the stands. Team B looks like they think someone just ate their lunch but they're not quite sure. Coach B looks like he's sure he's been had, but can't figure out just how. Team A is cool.

B loses the ball in their end on their possession. Coach B jumps up and shouts to me

"Let me ask you a question"

Ah, I think to myself, constructive dialogue.

"Yes coach, what can I do for you?"
"I wanna ask you a question! Why were you standing all the way down there??" while pointing to A's end.
"Well coach, I'm supposed to be down there since that's where the ball was going to start the half."
"..........Oh.........OK then...."

Coach B sits down, I jog downcourt.

I had B again tonight as visitor this time. Before I bounce the ball to B1 to start the second half I ask "Know which way you're going, right?" B1 was not amused.

Dan,

The one constent I see when I read this board is how most of the officials try to be professional and how coaches are critized quite often for all the questioning of calls, and our general lack for knowledge of the rules. Now with this being said I'm confused how you can want respect or think you deserve respect because your an official, but feel it is ok to make a wise *** remark to that coach for no apprant reason but you wanted to feel good about yourself. It is officials making comments like these why most of society does not respect or care about officials. I'm sorry that you feel as a person you have the right talk down to someone because you assume you are better. I hope there are not more officials like you out in the world.

[Adam]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Girls game:
A1 hits a basket.
Ball goes through the net and bounces toward the FT line.
B1 grabs the ball and starts up the floor.
I know what to do.
Tweet!

Hmmm. I have a question on mechanics now. Let's say the ball bounces beyond the free throw line before B1 grabs it and starts dribbling. Where do you put the ball in play for A? Endline or sideline? I'm thinking sideling based on where the violation occurred, similar to a backcourt violation where it doesn't get touched til it nears the endline.

Adam

[BktBallRef]

The violation is for not properly inbounding the ball. Therefore, the ball goes back to the endline.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by BBallCoach
Now with this being said I'm confused how you can want respect or think you deserve respect because your an official, but feel it is ok to make a wise *** remark to that coach for no apprant reason but you wanted to feel good about yourself.

Sorry coach, I must have missed something or maybe Dan deleted it. But I don't see a wiseass remark.

[canuckrefguy]

Originally posted by BBallCoach
I'm confused how you can want respect or think you deserve respect because your an official, but feel it is ok to make a wise *** remark to that coach for no apprant reason but you wanted to feel good about yourself. It is officials making comments like these why most of society does not respect or care about officials. I'm sorry that you feel as a person you have the right talk down to someone because you assume you are better. I hope there are not more officials like you out in the world.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
The violation is for not properly inbounding the ball. Therefore, the ball goes back to the endline.

Tony,

You mean you called a violation? Maybe I misread. Didn't you just straighten out B's confusion and give them the ball under the basket where A just scored?

Z

[Rich]

Originally posted by canuckrefguy

Really. I don't get it either. Could be that "all coaches are paranoid" training they give us showing its head

But I would've probably tried to spoil A's fun since, as the R I tend to point the way the ball is going and emphasize it. Frankly, IMO there is no good that can possibly come to an official during a trick play. So I'd be pointing the proper way and hopefully the defense would get the hint. Eventually, I would put it in play anyway.

(Edited to add: I deleted the parallel thread started by BBallCoach, since the same comments were made above by the same poster)

[Edited by Rich Fronheiser on Jan 6th, 2004 at 11:49 PM]

[Adam]

Depending on the level, I'd call a violation, too. Freshman girls, maybe. Below that, I'd probably straighten her out. Above that, no question I'd call the violation.
I'm still thinking the violation occurs where the player is with the ball, just as a backcourt violation occurs where A1 touches the ball rather than at the half court line.

Adam

[Just Curious]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
The violation is for not properly inbounding the ball. Therefore, the ball goes back to the endline.

I guess now I'm confused... You would actually call this a violation and simply not whistle it back to the endline for a proper start.....
If you were really going to call any violation, wouldn't it be a technical for delay... Don't we still have a dead ball since the shot was made and the ball wasn't put into play at all?
Seems to be a no-call to me, back it up for a proper throw-in and put time back on the clock if neccessary.....

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
(Edited to add: I deleted the parallel thread started by BBallCoach, since the same comments were made above by the same poster)

Thank you, Rich.

[Adam]

There used to be debate about this, when the throw-in team never gets out of bounds for the throw in after a shot. Do you call a throw in line violation? Or do you start your count and whistle at 5 seconds for that violation? I believe there has been a clarification (case book or rules, but I think it was case book) that says it's an immediate whistle once they start to play towards their basket.

[BktBallRef]

For two consecutive years, we discussed this play. The size of the threads were easily the largest ever to grace this board, until last week. If the damn search engine worked, you could look it up. We discussed it to the point that the NFHS revised 9-2-2 last year.

In our discussions, we had several different opinions as to how to handle it. Quite frankly, there was no rulebook asnwer. Among some of the suggested rulings:

1- Whistle and make them inbound it properly.
2- Begin the five second count.
3- Give a delay of game warning.
4- Call a violation.

The NFHS issued 9.2.2C that states a violation should be called if A begins to advance the ball up the floor and is obviously not going to conduct a proper throw-in.

9.2.2C
9.2.2 SITUATION C: A1 scores a basket. After the ball goes through the net, B1 grabs it and makes a move toward the end line as though preparing to make a throw-in. However, B1 never legally steps out of bounds, both feet remain inbounds. B1 immediately passes the ball up the court to a fast-breaking teammate, who scores a basket.

RULING: Cancel Team B's goal, throw-in violation on B1. The ball was at B1's disposal after the made basket to make a throw-in. B1 must be out of bounds to make a legal throw-in.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jan 7th, 2004 at 12:35 AM]

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Start of second half, A's ball, coach A calls me over -

"Hey ref, we're gonna try a trick play, OK?"
"OK" :shrug:

I know what's coming, never seen it before, but interested to see if it would work. I stroll over to pard (R), he asks what did the coach want, I tell him A's gonna do something goofy. OK. :shrug: :shrug:

I go to A's endline, A goes to the other end, B follows them setting up in a nice tight zone. Pard bounces ball to A1, A2 breaks down the floor, easy layup. Team A fans are clapping and laughing in the stands. Team B looks like they think someone just ate their lunch but they're not quite sure. Coach B looks like he's sure he's been had, but can't figure out just how. Team A is cool.

I've seen this play work once, and it was a doozy. The team that pulled it off was down by like 25 at the half, and ended up losing by about 40. But I think they should have won just for succeeding at this one thing. The coach of Team B wasn't paying much attention, she was doing something with her clipboard, and when she looked up and realized what had just happened, she called an immediate time out and just reamed her players up one side and down the other. She's always a very positive and warm person, but she lost it then, and I don't blame her. Her team was supposed to be the best in the city, and just for that one moment they were completely covered with egg. For those of us who instinctively cheer for any underdog, it was a very sweet episode.