Saw a game today and had this question.

If there is rebounding action and the offensive player falls to the floor trying to get a rebound but a defensive player grabs the rebound, what do you have if the ball handler trips over the player lying on the floor and loses the ball? Is your answer different if the player is just lying there versus actively trying to get up?

Sorry if this has been discussed before but I don't remember this being addressed in the case books.

As long as the player doesn't extend his arms or legs into the path of the rebounder, he's entitled to his spot on the floor.

First part sounds like a possible travel.
Second part depends on "how actively".
mick

Lying on floor, I would have to say, his legs are extended. How can he have legal guarding possition?

I didn't say he had LGP. But he's entitled to his spot, if he got there without illegally contacting an opponent. Now, if he raises, moves or sticks his leg out in the rebounders's path and creates contact, he's fouled.

I agree with Tony.

The rules agree with Tony too. See casebook play 10-6-1SitE-- <i>"No infraction or foul has occured and play continues. Unless B1 has made an attempt to trip or block A1 , he/she is entitled to a position on the court <b>even if it is momentarily lying on the floor after falling down</b>"</i>.

NCAA disagrees.

http://www.ncaa.com/champadmin/baske...10bulletin.pdf

It's kinda long but jump to page 8, play #3:

. BR-72, Rule 4-33, Guarding. B1 slips to the floor in the free-throw lane. A1 (with his or her back to prone B1) receives a pass, turns and, in his or her attempt to drive to the basket, trips and falls over B1. RULING: Foul on B1, who has taken an illegal defensive position (NCAA memorandum January 23, 1996, page 3).

Darn, Dan beat me to it. Tweet! Block.

Game fees
 

If this was an NCAA game on TV, I saw the game. The officials got it wrong. The player (B1)lying on the floor was charged with a foul. What the officials missed was the push by player (A1) that put him on the floor before he (A1) fell over him. Ah, instant replay, 20/20. The case play mentioned in this thread is not relevant to this play, because the player (B1) who went down was not directly under the basket when he was on the floor and the player (A1)under the basket could easily have scored but he (A1) backed up into the player (B1) (that he had pushed to the floor) and then fell on him. Of course, I am assuming we were watching the same game on the tube.

Re: Game fees
 

- what part did the officials get "wrong"?
- where in the case play posted here does it say "B1 was under the basket"?

LGP :(

LGP only gives the defender added protection when contact happens. It is not the be all/end all in a block, charge situation.

Darn it! Dan beat me to it again. The play is specifically addressed in Hank Nichols' first bulletin of the season. Dan already pasted the whole case play, but I'll do it again.

This seems directly applicable to the original question, and does not apply only to situations where the prone player is under the basket.

And of course under ncaam we don't (or shouldn't) care if he's under the basket or not.

Isn't the reference more closely in keeping with the requirement that a back screener give the opponent a step of space? The reference talks about A1 having "his or her back to the prone B1", whereas the original question makes no mention of the player who fell to the floor being behind the other player. The reference also is under the heading "Guarding", which doesn't seem to be the case here. Finally, while I don't know if it is relevant, in the reference there is team control by A, while in the question there is no team control during the attempt to get the rebound. It strikes be that there are enough differences that I question whether the reference should apply.

JMO, but no. The case clearly states that if A1 trips over prone B1, it's a blocking foul on B1. That's all I need.

For those of us doing FED
 

The game I was watching which brought up this question was college, but it was local and not televised.

I am still searching for how to apply this situation to High School rules.

Situation: Action under the boards, offensive player falls to floor and defensive player secures rebound and trips over player on the floor causing ball to come loose.

Does player on the floor have a legal guarding position or is this a block?

Re: For those of us doing FED
 

Don't be misled by the NCAA intepretation. The replies that Jurassic Ref and I gave you are correct for NF. This is not a foul, and LGP has nothing to do with the play.

10.6.1E
B1 attempts to steal the ball from stationary A1 who is holding the ball. B1 misses the ball and falls to the floor. In dribbling away, A1 contacts B1's leg, loses control of the ball and falls to the floor.

RULING: No infraction or foul has occurred and play continues. Unless B1 made an effort to trip or block A1, he/she is entitled to a position on the court even if it is momentarily lying on the floor after falling down.

Your play is no different.

Good case cite, Tony. You're about to hit a milestone!

Re: Re: For those of us doing FED
 

My association had a general meeting last night and it was re-emphasized, "BODIES HIT THE FLOOR, A WHISTLE SHOULD FOLLOW"!! Please assist? Response: Do what they instruct you to do.

Re: Re: Re: For those of us doing FED
 

I betcha the play we are discussing is not at all what they are talking about.

Re: Re: Re: Re: For those of us doing FED
 

I can't be more specific: "BODIES HIT THE FLOOR, A WHISTLE SHOULD FOLLOW". This sitch is a good example that this is not true, however we are instructed this way. I LOVE officiating.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: For those of us doing FED
 

I can't be more certain: your interpreter does NOT want you whistling a foul simply because B1 falls down. The play we are discussing is A1 trips over B1 who happens to be on the floor. Night & day.

Re: Re: Re: Re: For those of us doing FED
 

I got no problem with that, Woodee.

If the player on the floor extends an arm or leg into A1's path, I have a foul.

If A1 simply trips over B1 who is on the floor and falls to the floor, I've got traveling.

A whistle in each play. ;)

Woodee, the phrase " bodies on floor, we need to have a whistle" is when we have a crash involving the ball.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: For those of us doing FED
 

I agree, however the sitch that began this discussion NO WHISTLE followed, not what we are taught.

Guys, I agree with your points, I was letting you know the differences.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: For those of us doing FED
 

That's because "he trips and loses the ball."
If he had not lost the ball, traveling.
Since he lost the ball, it's nothing.
No whistle. :)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: For those of us doing FED
 

What we've been taught is nowhere in the rule book.

Per rule - incidental contact is all around.
Per philosophy (especially at higher levels) - athletes rarely slip on the floor and go to ground, especially when defensive players are around.

It's up to you which way to call it.