The other night I had a play and learned something new. The ball is going out of bounds and player A1 near the endline jumps out and while in the air hits the ball back on to the court making a great save. She lands OOB and then hustles back on to the court where she is the first to touch and recover the ball. My partner (his primary and a very experienced ref) calls a violation. The coach is an experienced ref and agrees. This was new to me and I cannot find it in the rules or case book. If anyone knows the reference I would like it for my own knowledge.

Isn't it only a violation, if the player who made the save hasn't yet attained inbounds status, i.e. he/she last touched out of bounds. Because if she was inbounds when she touched the ball, then there shouldn't be any violation called.

Too much Football
 

Someone is watching too much football (as if that was possible :) ). As long as they establish position on the court, they can legally touch the ball. I just had something similiar a week ago where the player saved it and bounced it off a defender standing near the line and it bounced back at him. He had jumped from OOB and the ball hit him while he was in the air. He landed in-bounds and questioned my whistle. I told him his position when the ball hit him was OOB. He didn't understand right away but I explained the "you are where you were until you get somewhere else" rule and compared it to his position when he just made the save. He understood and we played on.

Mregor

Thanks so far. I understand that A1 would need to establish her feet inbounds and that is what happended. She while in the air with in bounds status, hits the ball back on to the court. The ball never tounches OOB. A1 lands OOB then runs back on to the court. She takes two or three steps on the court, then grabs the ball and dribbles off. They told me that a player cannot leave the court, be the last player to touch, return and then be the first player to touch again. Maybe they were not correct after all??????

Legal play. Check out case book 7.1.1 Situation B

Your very experienced Ref. got this one wrong. If she did not have control of the ball before she went oob, then the play you described is legal.

I think they are confusing this with a violation by a dribbler (who has player control), Rule 9-3. You also learned that night that some VERY EXPERIENCED refs do not study and know the rules.

Actually only needs to establish one foot on the court.

RD

Way to go RookieDude, I didn't catch that one. One foot on court and one foot in air does establish yourself on the court.

Taking it even further...

A1 only needs to touch inbounds and not touch OOB. It could be a foot, a knee, a butt, etc.

I was just getting to that!
 

A one hand handstand. Oh yes. I want to be there when this happens.

Once upon a time a certain Sicilian child who shall remain nameless, and athletic guy, went four rows up into the stands after a loose ball. The official (carelessly, it must be said) began to put the ball in play without him. Do any of you live near airports? You know, then, how the sky grows momentarily dark when a plan comes in over 'your' runway. That's how it was this night when the future state high jump champ go back onto the floor from the fourth row. Wow.

I think it was John Madden that said, "One cheek equals two feet.". ;)

Re: Too much Football
 

Actually, that's a myth too, at least under NFHS football rules.

There's no rule that says a player can't be the first player to touch a ball after coming from OOB. In fact, a football player does not even have to touch inbounds to be considered inbounds. If he's not touching OOB, he's inbounds. "You are where you were until you get where you're going" does not apply.

Could this have been a double dribble?
 

If the player saved the ball, then came in bounds, caught it, then started dribbling, could this have been a double dribble?

Re: Could this have been a double dribble?
 

Yes. Saving the ball is considered the start of a dribble if no other player touches the ball and if the ball hits the floor. The player could return and continue dribbling but could not catch the ball and dribble again.

BBR, I don't think this is double dribble. She never had control until she comes back inbounds.

He asked "could" it be a double dribble. It wouldn't automatically be a double dribble but yes, it could be. The official would have to make a judgment, whether the player controlled the ball or not.

BBR, if she controled the ball before touching oob, then starts the dribble by throwing the ball inbounds, then why wouldn't it be a violation when she touches the ball inbounds? I just don't see this as a start of a dribble.

Because it's an interrupted dribble. There is no player control during an interrupted dribble, so stepping OOB is not a violation.

Re: Re: Too much Football
 

Let me re-phrase that. Someone is watching too much football on Sundays. I too officiate football (wing) and have to hear coaches complaints about he was OOB and first to touch.

Mregor

Start a dribble, then you say its an interupted drible. You can't have control, start dribble and say the start is interupted. If she gain control, starts the dribble then your are saying she knew what she was doing with the ball.

Now I'm assuming she was not dribbling prior to saving the ball.

Bart, what he's saying is that the save COULD be the start of a dribble. If the player just sort of bats at it, and it happens to go back inbounds, it's probably not. But if there's enough contact for enough time that it could be called control is would be considered the beginning of a dribble. Player now has dribble interrupted by the fact that she is falling OOB, so she doesn't touch the ball again until she is re-established inbounds. She may then continue a dribble, or catch and pass or shoot, but she can't catch and then dribble.

OK, I know what you are saying. I guessssss one could rule this play the wey you described it.

Re: Re: Re: Too much Football
 

That'll teach you to work in the middle of the field :)

Rich

Re: Re: Re: Re: Too much Football
 

The middle of the field is reserved for the guy with the pocket full of minature Snickers. :)

Thank you, rainmaker. I wasn't getting through. ;)

No, you were getting through, I'm just don't like getting close to the light side.

Ron,
I really hate when "Experienced" officials make calls like this. The same when a player who doesn't have control of the ball gets called for traveling. I think we should cover this at our next meeting.

I'm just don't like getting close to the light side.
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This brings a new idea to mind -- maybe we should start a thread on things our experienced and veteran partners have done that were wrong. It would help the assignors and rules interpreters who read this board to see what needs work. Jurassic for one, needs to spend more time training his underlings, and less time cruising the internet for trashy graphics. Sheez, this last one is just plain... nevermind.

I wondered if you were gong to come into this one Ron. I had never heard of such a thing, so before I posted I called and asked one more time what was called and why. Same answer over the phone. The only thing I had thought of was if they confused it with intentionally leaving the court and then coming back, which this was not and he told me it was not so..... Next meeting Mike and Geoff are going to talk about the 30 second clock after my post on the discussion board and questions that came up.