The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 25, 2003, 01:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Suwanee Georgia
Posts: 1,050
Here's the situation. 9th grade girls. Less than 5 seconds less. Team A is ahead by 1 or 2 points. I can't remember which. Team A inbounds the ball in their back court. A player from Team B pushes the Team A player who has control of the ball. No attempt to make a play on the ball. I call a foul. The push was not very physical, but it was a push. Team A's coach wants to know why it was not an intentional foul. I had no response. My partner came to my rescue and said that it did not warrant a intentional foul call. To be honest this was my 4th game ever and I was not even thinking in terms of intentional or not.

So, did I get it right? When do you call an intentional foul? What are you looking for? I realize that most fouls late in the game by the team that is behind are intentional. But when do you call it?

Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 25, 2003, 01:40pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,613
Quote:
Originally posted by rwest
A player from Team B pushes the Team A player who has control of the ball. No attempt to make a play on the ball.
If by push you mean something involving contact with the hand and not some little bumping of bodies, the play you describe is an intentional foul. The key is no attempt at the ball.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 25, 2003, 01:41pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,509
Quote:
Originally posted by rwest
Here's the situation. 9th grade girls. Less than 5 seconds less. Team A is ahead by 1 or 2 points. I can't remember which. Team A inbounds the ball in their back court. A player from Team B pushes the Team A player who has control of the ball. No attempt to make a play on the ball. I call a foul. The push was not very physical, but it was a push. Team A's coach wants to know why it was not an intentional foul. I had no response. My partner came to my rescue and said that it did not warrant a intentional foul call. To be honest this was my 4th game ever and I was not even thinking in terms of intentional or not.

So, did I get it right? When do you call an intentional foul? What are you looking for? I realize that most fouls late in the game by the team that is behind are intentional. But when do you call it?

Thanks.

First of all do not worry over whether you did not get it right this early in your career. Officiating is a constant learning process.

Some intentional fouls call themselves. It is the ones that do not call themselves are the ones that officials are made big money to get correct.

For the fouls that are questionable, you should ask yourself if this would have been a common foul in the beginning of the game. If your answer to this question is yes then it will be a common foul at the end of the game.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 25, 2003, 02:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Suwanee Georgia
Posts: 1,050
Quote:
Originally posted by just another ref
Quote:
Originally posted by rwest
A player from Team B pushes the Team A player who has control of the ball. No attempt to make a play on the ball.
If by push you mean something involving contact with the hand and not some little bumping of bodies, the play you describe is an intentional foul. The key is no attempt at the ball.
By push, I mean two hands against the upper body.

Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 25, 2003, 03:28pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 272
Send a message via AIM to firedoc
Intentional Foul! 2 shots and possession at the point nearest the foul. The reason this rule exists is that the offending team is trying to gain an advantage by committing this type of foul in this situation. The rule on intentional fouls negates the advantage that might be gained. It is a good rule and should be enforced.

If you miss it at an early stage of your ofrficiating career, don't worry about it. Just learn from your mistake and try not to make the same error again.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 25, 2003, 09:29pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,517
rwest, everything said so far is correct. don't worry about getting this call correct at this stage on your officiating. Now to answer your questing. A two hand push can easily be called intentional foul. There are other factors you may consider, time and distance, hard push or just making contact with two hands. There are two ways you can look at your situation; 1) next time you see it, call it so you can get experience in making this call. 2) only call it when you are very sure it is intentional.
__________________
foulbuster
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 26, 2003, 01:35am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 9,466
Send a message via AIM to rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by Bart Tyson
[B Now to answer your questing. [/B]
Bart -- you answer questings? Why didn't you say so earlier?!? It would have saved me a lot of shoe leather...

rwest -- the only part about your original post that worried me was the part about not thinking in terms of intentional. You can begin even now, to remember in the last couple of minutes of a close game to start thinking about the intentional. You may not call it for 10 or 12 games, but in that particular situation it MUST be at least in the upper drawer of your conscious. Definitely NOT too early to start working on this awareness.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 26, 2003, 09:45pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,613
Quote:
Originally posted by rwest
Quote:
Originally posted by just another ref
Quote:
Originally posted by rwest
A player from Team B pushes the Team A player who has control of the ball. No attempt to make a play on the ball.
If by push you mean something involving contact with the hand and not some little bumping of bodies, the play you describe is an intentional foul. The key is no attempt at the ball.
By push, I mean two hands against the upper body.

A two hand push against the upper body with no play on the ball probably is an intentional foul no matter what the stage of the game, it is just more obvious in the last minute of the game. In my opinion the intentional call is not made when it should be waaaaay more often than it is made when it should not. But I'm strange that way, just ask anybody.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 26, 2003, 09:50pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,988
Easiest intentional foul to call:

2 hand push from behind.

You're still learning so you still have to set your own limits to what's intentional and what's not. I didn't make my first intentional foul call until my 2nd year of officiating. The more games you do, and the more basketball you watch, you will be able to set your own definitions to call intentional fouls.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 27, 2003, 04:56pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: In a little pink house
Posts: 5,289
Send a message via AIM to Back In The Saddle Send a message via MSN to Back In The Saddle Send a message via Yahoo to Back In The Saddle
One additional thing to consider. Late in a close game, you should be aware of situations where one team will want to foul. In situations like this, give them the foul at the first touch. Otherwise they'll keep trying to foul and each foul will likely be more intentional and physical than the last. Call the first touch and hopefully you won't see the two-handed shove.
__________________
"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:08am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1