This thread is started out of pure frustration. I had a game last night and I wasn't happy with it. We did not effect the outcome of the game and someone told me "good game" after the game but it didn't matter. I know the crew should have done better. It was like I was officiating and he was doing something else. It was the kind of game where you have to make calls. Calls that will not be popular but calls. It started off bad when he talked to me like I was a rookie because I'm new to the area. I expect that but most of the time the other official is decent at worst. And, the school normally has 3-person. He even asked me "have you ever done a big ballgame?" This is what I'm thinking "first of all this isn't a big ballgame, and have you ever done a big ballgame?" I know every game is big to the kids but for officials the easiest way to screw up is to get caught up with the emotion of the game. This was a non-conference game in December and on paper it was a blowout and in reality it was a blowout! We talked about the trail following the play all the way to the hoop and he didn't agree. See, it's his thinking on this matter that let me know I was in trouble. We had a blarge in this game and I was the only one in the gym that knew it. I was trail of course and I was officiating the defense. I had a whistle without a preliminary and he had a charge. I did say "block" but nobody heard me so I went to the other end of the court. The defender knew he moved in after the player was airborn and he told me so. I had to make the unpopular calls that were the correct calls while he made the obvious calls. To sum it up, my mentors taught me to handle business and I don't think we did a good job as a crew. We weren't consistent and we almost lost control. He didn't interact with the coaches or the players. I even told him at halftime that we almost lost control. He even dressed in the wrong place after the coach told him he should be where I was. He didn't move his stuff! I'm a perfectionist and I wish the assigner could get a copy of this game.

The most frustrating the my partner has ever done:

Called the game because an assistant coach was asking for us to give him a technical foul. My partner said that his conduct would transfer to the kids, and the last 30 seconds of the game would be a living hell. We didn't make a lot of friends that day.

Oh, my gosh, ref18!! I didn't recognize you by your screen name. I didn't know it bothered you so much, although I did leave in kind of a hurry. I only wish you hadn't told everybody about this...

Hmmmmm!

Ref18 is from Ontario, Canada. Rainmaker's from the Left Coast. One of them sure must have got lost going to their game that day.

Forget your Thomas Guide again, Juulie, and you ended up in Canada?

I was L and my partner was trail, 2.4 seconds left on the clock.

After a score, A1 passed to A2 who had stepped OOB.

My partner chopped the clock in, though I didn't realize it at the time.

The horn sounded as A3 caught the ball in his FT lane.

He wanted to give A the ball on their baseline and put 2.4 seconds back on the clock.


I killed the SOB. http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/2M16.gif

LOL!

Not a major issue, but annoying
 

A pet peeve of mine is the "partner" who gives the foul-tip signal (baseball) when a defender swipes at the ball attempting to block the shot when I can clearly see contact on the shooter; it is even more infuriating when the call is IN MY PRIMARY.

Additional Pet peeve: (2 for the price of 1 :D) The "partner" (as a Lead) who "Toilet swishes" an airballed FT.

I am lead. Play in the middle of the key. I need popcorn, M&M's, and a large coke I have such a great view. Defender blocks shot, squeaky clean. Partner, from Trail, maybe 1/2 step inside the halfcourt line, calls a foul. Adds the editorial comment, for all to hear,

"C'mon partner, we gotta call that".

I believe he's still cleaning the puke off his shoes today. With his good arm.

I'm tellin' ya, you shoulda killed him. :)

A partner wanted to argue mechanics with me on the court before two free-throws... Said i was ball watching. .. NO! I was looking through the "triangle" to my primary and I use my perephial. It just so happened that everytime i took a quick glance to see where the ball was he was looking at me. I just poliety told him to wait till half-time to talk about it. We walked in the locker rooma nd he had his board out and everything. I said look first of all I dont want to hear a damn thing because your making calls infront of me that I dont want called. YOUR out of your primary. Secondly, next time you have a problem with something dont do it infront of players and coaches, thirdly. Why are you even looking at my eyes? shouldn't you be watching the play?

he was called into this game at the last minute.. and he usually only works with this other guy and he said we didnt need no stinkin pre-game. I just rolled my eyes and finsihed getting ready. I knew it was gunna be al ong game when he walked in becuase he only works with this one other guy 95% of the time.

Uh-oh.
 

Sure, she came up here for our beef.

Aahh, c'mon ref18, who was it? We know many refs in Steel Town.

.
.

Just kidding of course: don't tell me any names.

Re: Not a major issue, but annoying
 

Laugh as you will... what is a "toilet swish?"

Re: Re: Not a major issue, but annoying
 

You're kiddin', right? :)

Take your finger and swirl it around and around like you were stirring a drink.

That's the toilet swish. ;)

Re: Re: Re: Not a major issue, but annoying
 

I don't think I've ever seen that. I can't imagine why an official would do that.

I've seen guys use this "toilet swish" signal...only not stirring a drink with finger in the down position but, pointing finger in the air while swirling.

I've seen it used on a missed FT, basket interference, and even when the ball rolls over the top of the backboard...all improper signals I've been told.

Seems this is a mechanic for re-starting the shot clock, I believe.

RD

P.S. BTW...I "do over" on the 2.4 seconds at the backcourt baseline. "Coach, we don't want to end the game on a timing mistake, that wouldn't be fair...we're going to do it over. Coach B, we'd do the same for you."
Unfourtunetly, the surprise play is lost. :(

[Edited by RookieDude on Dec 24th, 2003 at 07:05 AM]

Wow, I'm glad I'm not the only one! Isn't it hard to let these things slide in a game when you have such a passion for it?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Not a major issue, but annoying
 

They do it because it draws a picture of the rim in the air. It does look ridiculous, though. If any signal is necessary, I make the same motion, but from underneath. Looks sort of wild and crazy, instead of strange and goofy.

My partner last night gave the "clean block" clapping signal several times. Not a big deal, but I just think it's dumb.

The annoying thing was at halftime. He was the R for the game. As we're leaving the locker room to start the 2nd half, there was nobody there to lock the door behind us. So I go onto the court to observe the teams and he goes to find somebody with a key, to make sure our stuff is locked up.

It takes him a couple minutes (no big deal), so at the 1:00 mark, I go to the table and get the game ball, so that when we gets back, I'll just pass him the ball and we'll start the half.

Well, he re-enters the gym right under A's basket, and A has the arrow. So he sees me with the ball -- at midcourt -- tableside -- and stays on the endline. He waves at me, saying, "Go ahead and put it in play there".

I just shook my head and threw the ball cross court to where he put it in play. That annoyed me. What if we were being observed at that game? He made us both look bad. Grrrrr.

Why take a stupid shortcut? Just do it right. It's not that hard.

Ya, it was a rec league game, and i was doing it with my Dad, I think he was being a bit overprotective of me, and when we got home, we had quite a big argument over what should've happened, and then the assignor got called, and we found out my idea, "tossing the coach" was the right one.

That was one argument he didn't win.

And Juulie, I think you've got the wrong person here. Although, I never would've thought this could've happened anywhere else.

[Edited by ref18 on Dec 24th, 2003 at 11:23 AM]

you don't argue with Dad
 

If your dad tells you a grasshopper can pull a plow,

You hitch him up, and don't ask how.


Anonymous

I was the trail in a two-whistle JV game. The ball popped out towards the division line with me 5 feet from the ball and the play. The ball bounced and was then in the air before attaining backcourt status, and , you guessed it...whistle from the endline for over-and-back. On top of it all, the ball had not yet come down in the backcourt, let alone be touched there. Awful! I then went to "chat" with my partner, told him that it was not an over-and-back violation and then we went to the AP arrow. It was an interesting sales job to the coaches.

Had a first year guy (my second) in a 9th grade girls game.
Older fellow - sleepy head. It was just before Christmas - schools out, kids loose, gym full of visiting realatives. Loud.

He was making slow and inconsistant calls - he was new. Tried to help and encourage. Getting heat from the fans and bench. He was getting singled out by the fans every play.

After a made basket (he was lead) and body's flying everywhere - the made shot was grabbed and thrown down "marginally" hard by the center. Close call IMHO.

He freaked. Went long/loud whistle - T on player. She turns to him with a look - another T. 2 seconds had passed. Coach jumps up "What ......." - T. Fans behind bench yelling - throws a T bench direction.

By the time I turned back I had 4 T's counted. I can still see him in the lane spinning around throwing T's all over the place.

Called him to mid court. The guy was enraged! Calmed him down as best I could.

Took ten minuets to get the game going again.

I think he retired.

Second place.

Had a partner NOT wearing Black underwear. He needed it after collecting a OOB ball.

Brutal.

I knew it wasn't you. But I did pull that very stunt once a few years ago. Felt so awful the next day (does one get a hang-over from too much emotion in a game?) I couldn't even admit on this board that I'd done it. Just pleaded for general encouragement and advice. Partner never said a thing to help me, which annoyed me a little, later on, but I suppose now he was as stunned as everyone else in the gym. It wasn't entirely disliked, though. The coach who "won" had been behind by a few points when it happened, and I had tossed him the week before, so he hadn't said a word the whole game. He got his reward for learning his lesson, I guess, although it was at a high cost to me.

I guess the moral to the story is, no matter how bad your partner may be, there is always some hope that they could improve at least a little bit -- if they want to.

Here's the situation: A1 is dribbling the ball in his frontcourt. B1 knocks the ball off of A1's leg and across the half-court line; A1 first to pick it up - by rule a backcourt violation (which we called correctly). About a minute later B1 attempts a pass to B2; A2 deflects the pass into back-court which B2 retreives (no violation - we made no call). Not knowing the rules, Team A's coach was screaming-mad as Team B is running their offense after recovering the ball. My partner, Trail in front of Team A's bench, blows his whistle to stop the play, and turns to Coach A and begins to explain the backcourt violation rules and the differences of the two plays. I wanted to tackle my partner right then and there. I expressed my extreme displeasure at half-time and told him "don't ever do that again!"
Although this incident happened last season, I've already worked with him once this year....he called a charge in my primary when I had a block (fortunately I held my signal so nobody knew we had a "blarge"). I'm scheduled to work with him on a big rivalry game in Feb. - not looking forward to that......

2nd year guy...Mr. Hotshot...went to three camps and the NASO convention over the summer...calls a player for a foot OOB on the baseline from C. Not only was it not his call, but she wasn't even close to the line--I was looking right at it. Instead of making him look bad by "overruling" him, I just employed the "quick travel" on the other team ASAP stratagey. At half...we had a discussion!

I dont have anything too stupid...but I do hate it when the U adds words words words to my captains meeting. Things like "stop playing when you hear the whistle" and "if the ball hits the ceiling, its out of bounds" make me want to blow chunks on shoes and stare at pants...or blow shoes on pants and stare at chunks...Something like that....Anyway, yes, I have heard both and more than once!!

Heck, almost anything added by the U makes me a little queezy! A simple "Have a great game" is all I ask because they aint listening anyway!!!

Actually this year, I have been very fortunate with my partners. In 22 games over about 15 dates, I have zero coimplaints.

When I first moved here a few years ago I showed up extra early for the first game of the season. I did not know anyone being new and just moved in. My partner did not show up for quite a while, finally with about 18 minutes to go the AD came to the room and told me my partner was out at the court. When I got out there I could not find her anywhere. When I asked the AD, he pointed way up in the stands to someone reading a newspaer! Sure enough that was her. I went up and introduced myself and asked to do a pre game. She refused and it was the only time I have not been able to get an offcial to at least do a short pre game. She hardly talks to me and at three minutes does the coaches. At two minutes it dawns on me that we have shot clocks. I asked why and my partner said they were for the game and wanted to know where in the world I have reffed, to not know that!!!I told her a little in Idaho, Colorado and Oregon where I had never seen one. I get about a 20 second explanation. At that point the clock is at zero, time to start and up goes the ball. I had no idea what to do about the shot clock and was lost on that point. We were so far apart on what we called, working with coaches, communication, etc. It was frustrating and a real pain. Since then I have had excellent partners and learned a lot. Just that one blip in that first game.

It would be easier for me to tell all the awful things I've done to my partner than the other way around, but there was this one time...

It was freshman girls, but a pretty good game. The stands were already crowded as the visiting team was very, very good and people like to watch them. Also, this was a day off school, and they had scheduled a bunch of games so that the kids could hang around and socialize, I guess. There was never any question about who would win, the only thing to be decided was by how much, and what the shoooting percentages would be. My partner didn't show until the beginning of the second quarter. "Traffic" she said, on a day off school at 1:00. Oh, well. She'd been there for maybe two minutes when this happened. I was lead. Home (behind by 10 at this point) had run this play several times and it worked once in a while. The dribbler ran straight down toward the top of the key, cut to one side, ran down along the side of the paint, and shot from the low block. This time the defense had a player just above the low block. I was "working wide" and had the perfect angle. The defender was totally set, had hands straight up, but as the dribbler barrelled down the line, the defender didn't brace herself for impact, she started falling backwards. There never was any contact at any time. It was the picture perfect flop, except that I was watching, and saw it all. Partner, hwever, had eight players between her and the play and called the PC. I didn't say a word, until half time and then I let her have it. Probably shouldn't have, but I was flabbergasted. Oh, well.

I have a question about this play. Let me first assume that Team A had control of the ball in its front court and that at the time your partner sounded his whistle Team A still had control of the ball even though there was no player control by any player on Team A. If that is the case, why did you go to the AP Arrow for the re-start?

A couple of things
 

Partner doesn't get to game on time. Had a partner one time show up mid way in 2nd quarter, walked onto court, heard something from one of the coaches an T'd him up.

I hate it when my partner gets a little lazy and administers a basline throw in on one side of the lane and stands on the other to keep from rotating.

My parter refuses to communicate. I had a game this year, when the entire game, my partner would blow his whistle, make no hand signal, turn towards the table and mutter something about a foul. Neither the playes nor me knew what he called and had to wait until he said to line up for free throws or move to place the ball for throw in. I talked to him during halftime that WE needed to do a better job of communicating. He never did.

I had a freshman game, the school was closer to my workplace than my home, so I took my bag with me to work and left for the game after work. Arrived at the site an hour and a half before tip off. Went to the locker room to change and decided to go watch the varsity boys team practice. I was the only one in the stands. about 30min before game time a man comes up to me and asked if I was working the game tonight. "Duh" Iam sitting there with black shoes, black socks, black pants, and a black and white striped shirt. I said yes I was. He stated he was working this game and he was my partner. I went to shake hands with him and to give him my name,he made no move to shake my hand. I thought to myself this is going to be a long night. I walked him to the locker room to show him where to chnage. As he was changing he started to rattle on how he was not happy about being here and that his wife took the call and accepted the game since one of the other officials had called the school telling them he was sick. He stated he did not work lower level games, and was only doing varsity. I told him with his experiece I would learn some things from him tonight. He stated not to expect much from him. As time passed he is getting dressed he wanted me to know that he had worked 4 state tournament games. Now it is getting crowded in the locker room,his ego was taking up most of the space. He finishes getting dressed and I asked him if he was ready to go over the pre-game. Now Iam thinking with his experience this would be a great learning experience for me. Wrong, he said he did not think a pre-game was worth the time for a freshman game. As we were walking out of the locker room, he turned to me and said " don't expect much help from me tonight this is your game. Enough was enough. I kindly turned to him and said. I would rather work this game alone as to work with you. I got no response from him. So I told him that I would not work with him. I told him to take his check and get the hell out of the gym, and if he did not I was going to. He turned around walked back to the locker room picked up his bag and left. The AD at the school was a official and we did the game together. I explained what had happend and he had heard this guy could be an ***. The AD and I worked well together had a great time with no complaints. Ever since that day I now get 2-3 varsity games a year from that school.

Clay, what happened to the other official?

To me the only partners who I can't stand working with tend to be the lazy ones. Typically, these are the people who, especially in lower level games, don't go through the formalities of a pregame, don't assume the proper positions on the court in the pregame and tend to schmooze with the coaches or with people at the table before the game. As a young official, to me, that shows a lack of respect for the game. The pregame formalities have a purpose and there are the few times when the officials can get burned big-time for not going through them properly. Also, partners who are lazy and don't switch when they're supposed to annoy me. Nothing worse than showing a lack of hustle, particularly when you could be being observed at any time.

Disclaimer: Any of my partners has more reason to complain about me than I do about them.

One thing that really bugs me (and it's happened a few different games): I'm working with a veteran official in a lower level game. In our pre-game he says, "Don't put the ball in play until I've gotten to my position and we've made eye contact." Then on violations in the back court where he becomes the new lead, he jogs slowly (or worse, strolls) up the floor. Meanwhile, everybody else in the building is staring at me wondering why I'm just standing there not giving the ball to the thrower.

And this is a problem because.....??

Rub those balls. . . :D

One of mine too!
 

BITS,
I feel you on this. Everyone is watching and wondering what the hell!! When I see my partners do this I do a resumption of play. I know its not correct but it usually lets them know turn around, here we come.

Similar to this, for the first time I'm calling in a youth rec league and one of the by-laws is to sub at the 4 minute mark in the first 3 quarters and ITS the REF'S responsibility to see the time and stop play. My partner is a vet in this league and has called b-ball for years but isn't a student of officiating. I politely ask him to have the timer blow the horn when we reach 4 minutes rather than us stop play because we have to take our eyes off the court. He disagrees, so we went on. Well in the third quarter we are subbing and I go over to the table with the players and remind them about their shirts and my partner on the other end of the court administers a throw-in with 5 players on the side line along with ME. I was pissed at him and the stupid sub rule. We really looked DUMB!!!!

I knew I could depend on you! :D

Happy New Year!

Re: One of mine too!
 

Take this in the spirit it's intended but why do you care if everyone is watching & wondering what the hell?

Who runs the game? You, or everyone else?

Quote:

...and my partner on the other end of the court administers a throw-in with 5 players on the side line along with ME. I was pissed at him and the stupid sub rule. We really looked DUMB!!!!

Wha? Isn't this what you said you do to your partners when you've decided you're ready to put the ball in?

Bottom line: wait for your partner to be ready before putting the ball in. It's very easy to do.

[Edited by Dan_ref on Jan 2nd, 2004 at 12:03 PM]

Re: Re: One of mine too!
 

Dan,
Have you been in this position, you are looking down court, looking down court, looking down court and the entire place is wondering why you will not give the ball to a player?

Regarding the inbound with only 5 players and 1 Ref, NOOOOO, I definitely wouldn't do that. It suprised me that he didn't look for me or players.


Also, HOW LONG DO YOU WAIT??? Please assist.

Re: Re: One of mine too!
 

I have to admit, the first couple of times this happened, I was very self-conscious about it. The game had a pretty good flow to it. And I was holding it up for what I felt was no good reason. I felt like every eye in the place was on me and they were all waiting impatiently. I got over it.

After that, I was just grumpy because my partner is holding up the game--for no reason other than he can't be bothered to show a little hustle. They call the mechanic the bump and RUN for a reason. There are eight players at that end that have hustled to get into position...and are waiting. The pair waiting to execute the throw-in are itching to get the game going...and are waiting. The folks who came to watch the game...are waiting. I am waiting.

As officials, we may run the game, but nobody came to watch us. And they certainly didn't come to watch us lolly-gag up the floor. It disrupts the flow of the game. It provides preventable dead ball time in which somebody can do or say something stupid. And it makes those of us who do hustle grumpy.

Re: Re: Re: One of mine too!
 

I wait until the entire crew - which includes the table - is ready to go. I don't care how long it takes.

Re: Re: Re: One of mine too!
 

Fact remains we are part of the game, and we are responsible for controlling the game.

Quote:

And they certainly didn't come to watch us lolly-gag up the floor.

I'm not there to meet the expectations of the fans. The game does not restart until I'm ready. And I aint ready until the crew is ready.

Quote:

It disrupts the flow of the game. It provides preventable dead ball time in which somebody can do or say something stupid. And it makes those of us who do hustle grumpy.

The flow is already disrupted. It does no one any good if you hurry the ball back in play because you're concerned someone might say or do something stupid. And frankly if you're gonna put the ball in play before I'm ready because you don't think I'm hustling enough I'm gonna blow it dead and we'll do it again.

BITS, you may think I'm making a big deal out of nothing but this is a huge, huge deal. More preventable problems happen simply because the ball gets put in play before the crew is ready, and these are sometimes the types of preventable problems that people remember for years.

Re: Re: Re: Re: One of mine too!
 

Dan,

I'm not trying to hurry the game because I'm concerned someone might say we are doing something stupid, its because the players and coaches are READY therefore we should be. What I'm speaking of is a reasonable amount of time waiting and the partner is looking offcourt at something else. All it takes is a simple look back over the shoulder
and here we go.

Tomegun,

Just this past Tuesday, I was put in a very bad situation by an official. It was the same guy who called the carry on Cheyenne last year in the only game they lost.
Anyway here's the sit:
White is down by one with 30 seconds to play in the 4th. They foul black and we are shooting one-and-one. This is a 3-man crew in a GV game. I am the trail. The first shot is missed and before anyone even moves to go for the rebound my partner who is the C blows his whistle. I am thinking, "oh sh*t, he thinks it's two." Nope. He proceeds to call a violation on the 5'2" point guard from white because she was standing at the top of the key with her right toe on the 3-point line! She did not even try to run in for the rebound, she just stood there. Of course, the coach comes to me because as trail I am the closest official. Black makes the replacement throw, and then misses the bonus throw. White comes down to the other end and makes a basket and we have to play overtime. Naturally, black wins by two.
I was frustrated by this for two reasons: 1. It was my primary area and he shouldn't be looking there. 2. It was so petty and there was absolutely no advantage gained by the player. It just wasn't a smart call, and it changed the outcome of the game.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One of mine too!
 

So? Who cares if the coaches & players are ready? If your parner aint ready then do not put the ball in. They'll wait.

Hustle, don't hurry. Yes, we do need to make sure partneers are ready. And yes, we do have a responsibility to hustle to get into position.

Its hard for me to have sympathy for this one. Toe on line is violation. Your primary, why didn't you do proventive officiating. Your primary, why didn't you make the violation call? Now having said this, I'm not going to make that call from C. In fact as T, in 2nd half I probably wouldn't make this call either.

Sometimes what may appear as a lollygag, may really be something else.
Getting subs in, checking for 6 players on the floor, observing benches, or many, many other things could be going on.
I agree that one should hustle, but sometimes, there is other bizness to tend to.

Then there should be a hand up., and this is not what we are talking about.

Another!
 

Bart,

I agree, if there is other bizness there should be a hand up.

Here is another frustating thing: No bump and run in 2 person. This has happened a lot to me. My fix, when I see this is happening, I immediately run to the spot signalling and telling my partner to go ahead. Saves that full court run.

AAAhhhh, two person. Hhhmmmm, I havn't done two person in years. I feel your pain!

Somewhat related, my most frustrating moment is when I have my hand up to stop the game from starting, and one of my partners puts the ball in play.

Oh, I almost forgot, he looked right at me, we made eye contact, he saw my hand - THEN he put the ball into play. :mad:

Re: Re: Re: Re: One of mine too!
 

Darn right. I was working 2-person this season with my hand up counting players at the start of a quarter. Partner R doesn't look at me and puts the ball in play. V has 6 on the court. Fortunately, V coach was sheepish and took blame for this, but we all know who was really at fault for the technical we had to call.

Taking time to take care of bizness does not bother me. In fact, I learned a mechanic I really like from one of these same partners. It is to stop at mid-court with one hand raised until all the substitutions are complete, then move off to your next position. I think it looks a lot sharper than beckoning the subs in on my way down court, which is what I used to do. (feel free to roll your eyes at the new guy)

No, it's simply enduring a partner's long, leisurely stroll from back court to the far endline while everybody else is already in position. No subs. Nothing unusual happening. That frustrates me.

But, perhaps I'm missing an opportunity. Perhaps I could use the time to check the team fouls on the scoreboard, check the possession arrow, re-count the players on the floor, or other useful dead-ball officiating activities. Maybe I could even attempt to be sociable and talk to the thrower while we wait. Ahhh, lemonade! :)

Yeah, like letting six players on the floor in a D1 game.

Do I think you're making a big deal out of nothing? No. Did I ever suggest putting the ball in play before my partner was ready? No. I'm still here, in back court, cooling my heels, waiting for my partner to get ready. Then I'll put the ball in play. In the mean time, I'm just getting grumpy.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One of mine too!
 

So why did you call it?

Start of a quarter, innocent mistake. No real advantage. If the officials are "really to blame", seems to me the right thing to do is stop, correct, and move on.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One of mine too!
 

Rich,
Since you had your hand up, why didn't you just blow it back down and get the 6th off the floor? Was there more to this?

A partner of a partner story.

A1 goes down hard and looks froggy.
Team control A.
Official A properly blows whistle to check player.
In short time the player says he's okay.
Official A gives spot for Team A throw-in.

Coach B (emotional and ignorant) yells for A1 to take a seat until the next dead ball, but Official A (taking more than a few seconds) explains that A1 was up and ready, that no coach was beckoned, and that the ball will be thrown in by Official B right now!

Official A runs to position and looks to see Official B replacing A1. :rolleyes:

<HR>
Get in. Get done. Get out.

I wouldn't call it either. It goes to the intent and spirit of the rule. A toe on the 3-point line is only going to be a factor if they go in for the rebound or are in a place to distract the shooter.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One of mine too!
 

Rich,
Since you had your hand up, why didn't you just blow it back down and get the 6th off the floor? Was there more to this? [/B][/QUOTE]

I agree Rich, If you have a hand up, while it is frustrating, you just whistle and get him off the court. The official who has the hand up still has time stopped. No penalties.

What I should've done, but my hand was up for routine counting -- NOT because I knew there were six on the floor. Since my partner was in such a hurry, I assumed incorrectly that he had counted the players and I dropped my hand in deference.

Wrong move.

Once the ball came on the court, it was probably five seconds before I heard someone mention the six players. Then I counted again.

The sixth player didn't legally play the entire game. I wonder what made him think he was in the game.

Ugh.

Live and learn. And be aggressive about keeping the hand up and the ball dead until *I'm* ready.

Rich

six players, been there, done that. I would venture to say most all of us has done that little mistake.

Hmmmmmm, which official should the timer look at when the ball is put in play...the guy with his hand up or the guy chopping in the time?

RD

I don't care where the timer is looking. The hand up is for my partner. Until my hand comes down, we have play stopped. Kind of like baseball when the umpire has the hand up and the pitcher throws the ball. I don't care what happens. I have the game stopped.

RookieDude,
I'm with Bart. Don't care about the timer.

My stop sign is angled toward my partner.
MY stop clock is straight U.P., ... hopefully. (Hafta check the game tape to make sure. :) )

mick

Rich,
They make clicker thingys that goes 2-3 and 3-4.
We need one that goes 5-5? :)
mick

Had that mistake today. It won't ever happen again. I stopped play, partner is looking at me, I'm counting the players, people are laughing, I recounted. Damnit, a screw up. We just re did the throw in. :)

Fair enough...but this definitely puts your partner (the one chopping in the time) at a possible embarrasing situation.

His hand was up also, while handing the player the ball for the Throw-in...then he chopped the time in, with lets say 3 seconds left... Team A down by one, gets the throw-in, shoots the ball, and makes it at the buzzer.

The crowd goes wild!! The fans rush the court! But wait! You still stubbornly have your hand up counting players...Whew! Team A Coach is going to love this "do over"! ;)

I guess that'll teach your partner too have eye contact before every throw-in.

RD

[Edited by RookieDude on Jan 3rd, 2004 at 10:54 PM]

Don't think so, RookieDude.
Administering official will have 5 against 5 before releasing the ball.
Hang in there. It'll come.
mick

I suppose one could think of all kinds of different situations to find one that might convence you and others you did the right thing. I think I will stick to my guns and have my partner do another throwin. Just remember, the eye in the sky don't lie.

I have another thing that I don't like. During pregame we go WE say we are going to do "blah, blah, blah." WE go out there and I'm the onle one doing "blah, blah, blah." What happened to the pregame? Why did we have it? I could have saved my breath!

Practice! Practice! Practice!

Also, maybe a reminder at half-time?!

What do you mean by practice (I don't mean that as harsh as it reads. I looked at it and wanted to edit it)? I'll give you an example, we will agree that if we see a player that has been given ample warnings with their shirt out then they will get a sub and tuck it in on the side. I say OK, then I'm the only one that does it. I don't mind because I can't go wrong with something like this because it's in black and white. But, it is something we went over in pre game. Also, there are many interpretations of the mechanics in regards to long switches. Right or wrong, I can adapt to what we go over in the pre game. So I'm in a game and I wasn't even involved in this switch but I'm looking at it thinking "that isn't what we talked about" and it looks bad because one guy is doing it and the other one is doing something else. Of course that is a 3-person crew. Things like that can be avoided by a good pre game and follow through.

All I meant by the post was that maybe your partner is still trying to get the pre-game thing down and still has a lot of slip between cup and lip--he's still practicing walking the walk kind of thing.

It's always much easier to talk about something than to actually get in the situation and get it done. I think we've all been there to one degree or another. In this case he's still practicing the "walk".

But, I can see how this could/would be very frustrating.

P.S.
Also, in your orig. post you asked: "What happened to the pre-game? Why did we have it?" Thus, my "practice, ..."
We are all constantly "practicing" getting better. We don't stop doing those things just because we didn't get it right the first or second or xth time; we keep on keeping on. I also believe your question was more rhetorical and you already recognize my points and all this is just a typing drill for me.:D

[Edited by davidw on Jan 5th, 2004 at 01:09 PM]

Oh, I understand what you mean but keep in mind that these are supposed to be veteran officials in the local board.

Last night I'm lead. My partner in the C has a weak tweat then several whistles when a kid goes to the hoop and there is a crash on his side. I cross the lane and he tells me he has an inadvertant whistle. OK, I put the ball in play and go on. During a timeout he tells my other partner and me "I'm sorry about that whistle, that contact was right in front of you." Huh? So, I'm new to the area and I just met this guy before the game. I'm not just going to go for that so I tell him that it was right in front of him and he was at the C. He disagrees and that pisses me off. The game finishes and we don't say anything about it. I come to find out that this guy likes to talk out of his posterior a lot. During halftime most of his comments were "what you guys need to do is..........." That is an instant turn off. This was a good game with at least two division 1 bound big men. No time for this big fat ego. Keep in mind that when he mentioned the inadvertant whistle we didn't say anything to him about it. I think it was his own guilt that brought it up. It still pisses me off that he would try to basically blame me by saying the play occurred on my side of the hoop in the first place. I might be many things but ignorant is not one of them.

You're in a no-win situation, Tomegun. With guys like this, I think that the best thing that you can do is just smile, nod your head, don't say anything to him, and let everything that he says go in one ear and out the other. No use getting mad; that might affect your game and you don't want that. Just hope that you don't get stuck with him again.

YU.P.
Sometimes all you can do is git in, git done and git out.

I was gonna say that, but I was afraid of getting sued under the copywrite laws. :D

"copywrite" ????? Nah, you won't get sued.....you'll just be shackled and carried away by the spelling police

"They're coming to take me away! Ha, ha!
They're coming to take me away! Ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho...."

Mick, did you forget to pay your Brain Bill? (TeeHee)

Never had to pay it.
Never been used.
So there!
mick

I applied your philosophy the other night. My partner was a true Homer Ref and some. Everyone knew him and he was terrible.

Here are some issues I had with him:

1. Enters the gym with his jacket on and his stripes hanging down to his knees.
2. When I used the word violation he said "I was too technical".
3.Pre-game: Eye contact and that was it. I had to wait several times for him to get down court when he had his back turned.
4. Fraternizes with both team coaches, he was from the area and worked at the local grocery store. The coaches wouldn't say anything to me, not even requesting TOs.
5. Every call I made that the Coaches didn't like he would agree with them
6. An OOB throw-in forced him to switch sides, he tells me " don't switch sides you made me walk across the court. To demonstrate how he wanted it done, he then would inbound the ball on the baseline across the lane.
7. I called a T on a player for cursing real loud, he says "I should of warned him".
8. Had a wad of chewing tobacco in his mouth
9. During transition as old lead I would beat him to half court.
10. Finally, at the end of the night he tells me "I hope I didn't teach you any bad habits". I said See ya!!!!

Got in, Got done and GOT OUT!

I told my assignor I didn't want to work with him again because he wasn't serious.

Oh my!

Woodee, you did absolutely the right thing. Get the game out of the way, and then report him. It's just a complete waste of time even trying to talk to guys like this- they don't get it, and they never will get it.

You showed admirable restraint by not popping the guy upside the head after he pulled #5 on you.