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Tue Nov 28, 2000, 10:36am
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I would like to clearify the type of foul we are talking about. Not your normal type of push you see through out the course of the game. As an official, you determine this player, with intent, pushes his teamate into the opponent. Your saying no way a T. OK, i guess we let him do it as many times as he wants or until all his teamates have all fouled out. Also, i don't tell players what i'm going to do through out the game. But, this is a little different, someting you don't see very often. Do you still hold the same oppinion? Please understand I am not asking this as an argumentative question, because i dought i will ever see a player do this more then once in a game, but rather to get another point of view.
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foulbuster 
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Tue Nov 28, 2000, 10:37am
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That sounds like baseball
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You also Ump on the diamond. mick
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Tue Nov 28, 2000, 02:03pm
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Obviously any "push" is with intent, but we don't know so obviously what that intent is. It seems to be apparent from the course of the discussion that you must judge what the intent is. My initial reaction to the situation initially described was that B1's intent must have been to push B2 into A1, and that may have been the case. But in many defensive situations, you will see a player that is slow to rotate in a zone get pushed by a quicker reacting team mate toward the place they are supposed to have already moved to. Or, in man to man, a player pushing another player into help position on defense. There are probably many more cases where this occurs than those where a player pushes a team mate with the intent of having them run into an opponent. "Repositioning" pushes among defenders are not unsporting in nature and should never be punished with a technical, even if B1's push of B2 inadvertently results in B2 contacting A1.
Therefore, you must be absolutely certain that you have correctly discerned B1's intent, specifically, if you feel that B1 solely intended to cause that collision. If you believe that you can definitively say that B1 intended to cause the contact, I would support B1 getting T'd up the first time. Otherwise, charge B2 with the PF and let him/her glare at B1.
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Tue Nov 28, 2000, 02:14pm
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Bart,
I, for one, would not warn the guy doing the pushing that he's about to get a T for unsportsmanlike conduct. I would call the foul on his team mate and be done with it. If he keeps doing it I imagine his team mates will get damn sick & tired of it soon enough and they'll handle it. If not then the coach will. It's not my job to prevent stupid play that happens to fall within the bounds of the rules. Dan
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Tue Nov 28, 2000, 06:23pm
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Good point Dan.
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foulbuster
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Tue Nov 28, 2000, 11:53pm
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Wed Nov 29, 2000, 02:03am
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Good input. Consider calling the foul on B1 for the illegal contact. B1 will take care of B2! I see no cause for a T on B2.
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Wed Nov 29, 2000, 08:57pm
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I think were are basically on the same page here,
If the player was just trying to place one of his team mates in a better position the intent was not to cause B1 to foul it just happened that way. But if B2 shoves a team mate under an airborne player or does this just to cause a foul that must be stopped right away....
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Thu Nov 30, 2000, 11:18am
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Had a very similar play in boys varisty game last week. B2 in going for block jumped into B1 who fell into shooter A1. Foul on B1 with A1 shooting 2.
During first half so B's coach saw the entire play and got on B2. Never complained to us. One of the unwritten rules for us is "call the obvious". B1 made the contact, so the foul is his/hers.
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Don
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