crow hop

[Teddly]

The crow hop is a very good offensive move. It requires strength, athleticism, floor sense and awareness. I have seen this move at the H.S. boys level (not at the H.S. girls level). If the player has enough space to make the crow hop, it's a great move because it's difficult to defend. By rule, the player with the ball must have one foot on the playing court then jump off that same foot. landing anywhere on the court, landing both feet together simultaneously - this way neither foot is considered a pivot foot. The problem in my area seems to be with the the word simultaneous. Close enough isn't what the rule says ... If the player doesn't land with both feet together simultaneously, then it's a clear travel. So, I'm wondering, in your H.S. ball experience, is this called by the book? No splitting hairs - it's the rule!
Thanks!

[just another ref]

Originally posted by Teddly
The crow hop is a very good offensive move. It requires strength, athleticism, floor sense and awareness. I have seen this move at the H.S. boys level (not at the H.S. girls level). If the player has enough space to make the crow hop, it's a great move because it's difficult to defend. By rule, the player with the ball must have one foot on the playing court then jump off that same foot. landing anywhere on the court, landing both feet together simultaneously - this way neither foot is considered a pivot foot. The problem in my area seems to be with the the word simultaneous. Close enough isn't what the rule says ... If the player doesn't land with both feet together simultaneously, then it's a clear travel. So, I'm wondering, in your H.S. ball experience, is this called by the book? No splitting hairs - it's the rule!
Thanks!

Never heard it called a crow hop. I agree that many of the players making this move cannot spell simultaneous. My observation is that entirely too many high school players are watching games on tv and have taken the stance on traveling which started in the NBA and has spread widely into college ball: this rule doesn't apply to me!

[PAULK1]

this is a jump stop the only thing wrong with your play
is after the jump neither foot can be the pivot foot.
meaning if either foot is lifted and comes back down before a shot or pass or is lifted before the start of a dribble
it is traveling.


[Edited by PAULK1 on Dec 23rd, 2003 at 01:01 AM]

[BktBallRef]

I think he means the jump stop.

Sounds like a confused softball umpire.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Teddly
The crow hop is a very good offensive move. It requires strength, athleticism, floor sense and awareness. I have seen this move at the H.S. boys level (not at the H.S. girls level). If the player has enough space to make the crow hop, it's a great move because it's difficult to defend. By rule, the player with the ball must have one foot on the playing court then jump off that same foot. landing anywhere on the court, landing both feet together simultaneously - this way neither foot is considered a pivot foot. The problem in my area seems to be with the the word simultaneous. Close enough isn't what the rule says ... If the player doesn't land with both feet together simultaneously, then it's a clear travel. So, I'm wondering, in your H.S. ball experience, is this called by the book? No splitting hairs - it's the rule!
Thanks!

Teddly -- I like calling it a crow hop. There are two different moves that are both called jump stops, and there are endless arguements about "whether the jump stop is legal", when the arguers are talking about two different things.

I had trouble with what you're describing at first, too. The trick is to re-define "simultaneous" to match what others in your association, and region use. I see this a lot when a player (mostly girls ball) catches a pass and then lands with both feet "simultaneous"-ly. Well, they don't, let's face it. But "Close enough" IS how it's defined for most refs, and you have to adjust to that. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

[Teddly]

My description is not the greatest. Let me try again.A1 receives a pass, gathers the ball off his right foot,lands with his left foot jumping off the foot and now must land two feet simultaneously; neither foot can then be the pivot.
Must pass or shot only.
Wow! Lots of foots in here. Ahhwelll
I beleive ncaa rule4sec65art3b.2.covers what I am trying to explain. Again this move is only done by a select few.
Am I enterpreting correctly, thanks.

[PAULK1]

if right foot is on the floor when he secures control
then lands on left then jumps it would be traveling
when they land.

if right foot was not on the floor then landed on left and jumped after landing they could pass, shoot or dribble.

[Jay R]

Originally posted by Teddly
My description is not the greatest. Let me try again.A1 receives a pass, gathers the ball off his right foot,lands with his left foot jumping off the foot and now must land two feet simultaneously; neither foot can then be the pivot.
Must pass or shot only.
Wow! Lots of foots in here. Ahhwelll
I beleive ncaa rule4sec65art3b.2.covers what I am trying to explain. Again this move is only done by a select few.
Am I enterpreting correctly, thanks.

In your description, "A1 gathers the ball off his right foot". That means that his right foot is his pivot foot. Now, he can jump off his right foot and land similtaneously with both feet. If he jumps off his right foot and lands on his left foot, it will be travelling if his pivot (right) foot comes down again before a shot or pass.

[Bart Tyson]

I had a coach tell me I was wrong and the player does not have to land both feet at the same time. I finally told him, we agree to disagree. And when we are talking close enough, well, to me it has to be obvious the player did not land both feet at the same time.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Teddly
By rule, the player with the ball must have one foot on the playing court then jump off that same foot. landing anywhere on the court, landing both feet together simultaneously - this way neither foot is considered a pivot foot. The problem in my area seems to be with the the word simultaneous. Close enough isn't what the rule says ... If the player doesn't land with both feet together simultaneously, then it's a clear travel. So, I'm wondering, in your H.S. ball experience, is this called by the book? No splitting hairs - it's the rule!
Thanks!

Technically speaking, no player will ever be able to do land on both feet simultaneously. If you used high speed photography, you'd be able to tell that one foot makes contact before the other, perhaps by 1 millisecond, in all but 1 out of millions of attempts. To the human eye, it may look simultaneous but not once it is accurately observed. So, for it to be allowed at all, it must be "close enough".

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I think he means the jump stop.

Sounds like a confused softball umpire.

It is also called the "pro hop" in many circles. But that is because that is the place you see it the most.

I do see the more skilled players do this all the time or the D1 caliber level (HS players) are more likely to attempt this move. What I have found, is that it is called improperly by many official, mainly because they do not see it that often. Either they call it when the move is legal, or they do not call it when the kids do it legally (move one of the pivot feet).

Peace

[just another ref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Camron Rust

Technically speaking, no player ..........used high speed photography..........in all but 1 out of millions of attempts............. To the human eye,

So what you're saying, if I may summarize, is that if a player hits you in the eye with a high speed photograph, you would call a technical.