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Hello, all. I was wondering, what do you think the dumbest rule in basketball is?
First, administrative technicals for something like the starters not being marked. I can understand incorrect numbers and such (even though most would agree that 99% of the time it's just error, not deceiet). For the life of me, I cannot figure out what difference it makes. When I do the books, I don't even mark who goes in afterwards, because that sort of information is irrelevant, really. The only purpose I can see would be to confirm that the number is in the book, but I double check during the pre-game. I just don't get it. It's a dumb rule. What do you all think? |
The rule that says some guys get to travel in the NBA and some guys don't. Oh wait, that's not actually a rule? Coulda fooled me...
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The one I wonder about it the T for punching the ball with a fist. But then, that never gets called either. |
basket Interference
I would like to see hitting the backboard (in a failed attempt to block a shot) added as basket interference -- the basket most certainly shakes and possibly impacts the ball going in or not.
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Worst rule: Alternate Possession. I was told it was added because most Referee's cannot throw a strait jump ball. Heck thats the easiest thing to do! |
The dumbest rule is the one that says the team with the most points wins the game. Everyone knows that the team with the best looking cheerleading babes (18 or older, natch) should be declared the winner. ;)
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http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmili...py/roflmao.gif [Edited by canuckrefguy on Dec 23rd, 2003 at 10:56 AM] |
Do you know how long a game would last if at every jump ball situation, we had to line everyone up and throw up the ball. I heard that FIBA might be going to the arrow in the next set of rule changes.
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The new NCAA mechanic for the calling official to go table-side after reporting a foul makes my "stupid" list. This change wasn't made with the officials or the players in mind.
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mark p
Its not who brings the best cheerleaders but who brings the best "m.i.l.f." to the game should be the winners! NOW for the dumbest rule... allowing a coach to call a time out when the defence has done a great job in trapping the offence in a corner. I feel only a player should ever be able to call the time out on there own judgement or by hearing the coach yelling to them to call it. just my thoughts. |
Just to clarify, TPS2859, were you referring to "more interesting local fauna".
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according to my son who is away at college it stands for "mothers I'd like to ****".
but who has time to look in the stands.... |
During Timeouts lol :D
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I can see it now...
team "a" has 22 points, 9 rebounds, 4 team fouls, and 29 "M.I.L.F.'S" THEY WIN!!!!!!! |
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Anywho, the reasoning is it will promote "constructive dialogue". I recently had to ask a coach if he felt the discussion we are having is actually "constructive" or even a "dialogue". He mumbled something and walked away... :shrug: |
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HE MUST BE A REPUBLICAN
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Going table-side
I like going table side in college. When you are going to report you are already on the way and it allows the coach to ask you a question. Going to the other side, if they had a question and were not able to ask you for a few minutes he/she could get even more steamed and later blow up. It could have sometimes been easily avoided if you were able to talk w/them right away.
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Dan,
your son has my deepest respect! I was looking to add a little humor to someones day. Those who choose to serve our country find little to laugh about at these trying times we are in. So I choose to find as much humer in anything as i can for everything has a bright spot if you look hard enough. |
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Allright!! |
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rainmaker...
It was actually called at my game last night. I had to do the books for the varsity girls game, as our regular score keeper had surgery. Therefore, we had to get one of the girls from the girls' team to do the books for the boys - it was a choppy transition. I just think a technical foul for something as petty as that could possibly just ruin a whole game. We didn't mind, but heck, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." It's trivial.
BTW, to everyone else, There's nothing wrong with being republican. :D |
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Calling official-table side. As the old saying goes, don't knock it until you try it. I've been doing it for 2 or is it 3 years(?). Well since the women's changed it. I have know doubt it is better. Coaches are not yelling accross the court. In fact, the coach very seldom even ask about the call you made.
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I could make a long post but I will keep it short: if you don't like going table-side you are scared or unsure of the call you just made.
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In the pros and in most D1 games, the game is televised. If a coach goes berzerk, it will be obvious on tape and s/he can be fined or suspended by the league. But in HS, lots of games don't get taped. Even in D3, lots of games don't get taped. So if a coach happens to go off in those games, all you get is a paper report from the official. HS coaches are rarely fined or suspended, in my experience, unless they take the students out drinking after the game. So I think there is very good reason not to go table-side in many games, but it has nothing to do with being scared. And again, I like the mechanic. It has helped me in the past. But I can see obvious reasons for not using it. |
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I've never had an official tell me they were scared to face a coach. I do agree at times common sense says to stay away for the better of the game. But, these are few and far between situations. And even in the NCAA we recognize the need to stay away. I like the table side.
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Nobody says it but I know of some officials by name that are afraid of this. When you make some phantom calls you don't really want to talk to a coach. We've all seen this formula: bad call + upset coach = Technical foul. These are the people that would not benefit from going table side. I'm not talking about anyone on this board. Just being on this board shows that we care for the game more than some others IMHO.
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I started teaching myself this about technicals for a coach.
If I made a crappy call he'll get more leeway than usual. I will after a while ask him to calm down. Now if I made a good call and everyone and thier momma knew it was the right call; Then yeah. He's got a bout 20 seconds to hold some dignity before I get him for it. I'm not going to give a technical for something I screwed up on. If he's upset at a bad call I made he's got a right to because they're paying for good offiicals and if we dont give them that they should be miffed. This comes back to a freshman game I called in the first few weeks of the season. Made freethrow - lots of confusion going under the post - I even get confused wrong team (B) steps OOB with the ball. OH WAIT_ WRONG TEAM! TWEET! I Give the ball to the right team and A Coach goes BONKERS! THATS A TECHNICAL FOUL! I said It was my mistake no-time ticked off. He wouldnt not calm down. I warned him fair and square. Finally between quaters my partner and I are discussing another play that happend. Coach starts coming out to center court YELLING! My partner said - Coach please return to the sideline, We will not dicuss anything with you out here. He kept walking and hollering so I whacked him. I reported it. Partner told him he was seatbelted, he shrugged his shoulders and said fair enough. |
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In HS, you have many coaches with little or no professionalism. HS coaches go off all the time with literally no just cause. They misunderstand the call, the rule, the situation, whatever. . . The best way to avoid that situation is to have the calling official go opposite, that's my only point. |
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No doubt about it: three seconds in the paint.
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Some think the toss is a bad idea and we should go to a coin toss and then use AP. Of course, then we'd all have to practice tossing a coin, catching it and determining if it's heads or tails. Way too tough. [Edited by Larks on Dec 26th, 2003 at 12:02 AM] |
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I would like to discuss my dumbest rules. The first rule is the substitution. I don't understand why the "check in" is necessary. If you are a disqualified player and go in, then the table can buzz you and you can issue a technical foul. Being an ex hockey player, I don't have anything against changing on the fly providing we are working three man!!!
The new two man mechanic for time out positioning makes no sense to me. Luckily we haven't had alot of coaches asking where the ball will be put in play, but the old way seems to make more sense to me. I understand that they are doing this to mirror the three man, but with two man there is alot more distance to cover for both officials. I could see three seconds in the lane treated like breaking the plane on a throw in. Have a warning and then a technical foul. That would eliminate "camping" and would make for alot more movement through the lane. I would like for all officials to know the difference between a fumble and a dribble. If you don't know, please check out the definitions and get this call right. I think that dunking in warmups should be allowed prior to the 10 minute mark. If one team can't dunk, too bad. In most varsity games up here in the sticks, a team has one or two dunkers per team but they can't make it happen in the game. Give the crowd what they came to see. Also, hanging on the rim would be penalized with a T. Here is a rule I would like to see added. Give the coach one card that reads "I am stupid and don't know the rules". When he violates this rule, he loses his card. If he violates again, he is gone. We can't enforce this for the fans, so I guess we will just have to go with the coach! Sorry for the ranting, but it is the day after Christmas and I don't have anything else to think about! Have a Happy New Year!! |
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I agree, I cannot believe that I forgot all about alternating possession. MTD, Sr. |
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It is my opinion that it is a rule whose time has passed. The motion offense that teams now use requires players to be moving not standing around like dead wood. Plus, I think that too many officials do not when to call it and when not to call it. MTD, Sr. |
Don't you think that if the 3-seconds rule was not in place that motion offenses would change?
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As for knowing when & when not to call it, that's a coaching problem, not a rules problem. |
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HEY....that hurts |
Here in Iowa, the girls use a coin toss to start the game. The year they made the switch, I was taking a break from officiating, so I never heard the rationale behind it. It strikes me as silly, especially at the high school level.
Adam |
No one in my chapter is really fond of the "shirts have to be tucked in" rule. It takes so much time to tell every player on every dead ball to tuck their shirts in. It gets old.
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Well our chapter has come to the point where we don't even give them warnings. If it's not tucked in, and the pants pulled up to the waist, then they don't come in--no questions asked.
Every coach has agreed with this and, surprisingly, not b*tched about it. |
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But, just be sure you didn't accidentally exchange your regular coin with your party trick double sided coin. |
That's true. But all you have to do is remember what the initial call was and which side is heads. And ya don't want to end up like NFL and have to paint the heads side red. :p
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WHOA. Punching the ball
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Along the same lines, while kicking at the ball is not forbidden, any other kicking is, including feigning kicking at the ball. If, in the official's judgment a kick is being used as a threat, it's a T. |
Re: WHOA. Punching the ball
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Re: Re: WHOA. Punching the ball
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[/B][/QUOTE]The rules cover these acts very explicitly now. It's simply up to each official to use the existing rules. Rule 4-18-1- <i>" Fighting is a flagrant act and can occur when the ball is dead or live.Fighting includes, but is not limited to, such combative acts as an <b>attempt</b> to strike, <b>punch</b> or <b>kick</b> an opponent with a fist,hands,arms,legs or feet <b>regardless</b> of whether contact is made"</i>. What more do you need than that, Jeff? Covers all the situations that you talked about, if you want to use it. Handle with care, though. |
What Chapter are you in KTJ?
I personally do not allow subs on my court if there shorts arent up and thier shirts arent in. Before the game I tell EVERYONE in or around the circle shirts in pants up. Try to keep it that way ladies (or gentlemen). You play better. And its not usually a problem. However when I tell a kid to tuck his shirt in and get his pants up and he rolls his eyes at me I'll tell him again. If he doesnt do it then he's gunna sub out. Im not the "shirt and short king" but ya know.. If i have to tuck my shirt in, so should they LOL. |
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Too bad they can't do that anymore. |
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While not a rule, the mechanic I have most trouble with is, as a crew, being expected to be on the court 30 minutes prior to tip-off. A men's basketball mechanic, I do, however, certainly understand why we're expected to be on the floor that early.
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The NFHS rule I hate most is allowing Coaches to call a live-ball timeout. As an official I'm trying to watch the game (or at least the players in my primary). It is difficult in a loud gym to hear the coaches, much less turn around to verify that it is in fact the coach requesting the time out. When the ball is dead it's not an issue, but when the action is happening, make the players think for themselves and call the time outs.
Grail |
And then the coaches expect you to be all-seeing -- they'll stand there making a little time-out signal with their hands and if you don't respond immediately they act as if you're watching some other game.
Most of the time you know when a timeout is coming and can be ready for it. But not always. Rich |
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Mregor |
Since you're local to me Mregor:
Belleville's varsity coach has such a play. I granted him a timeout during a varsity game last season when he called such a play. He's a really nice guy and we had a laugh over that when I went back early this season and asked him if he still runs that play. BTW, I cancelled the timeout and put the ball back into play. When I go back there later this season, I will remind my partner of it since the guy working with me is not my regular partner. Rich |
O.K., I'll chip in here, even though it's been a week or so since this thread was posted. I would have to say that one of the dumbest rules in basketball is requiring the defensive rebounders on a free throw to occupy the low spots below the block. That is a lousy rebounding angle for the defense, which is supposed to have the advantage in this situation.
I would remove this area as a legal spot on FT's and move everyone up one spot. In other words, the lowest spots on the FT occupied by the defense would be the lane spot ABOVE the block. The fourth slot would of course now be legal if we stay with the current NFHS mechanic. |
Very Close 2nd place, IMO
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Mregor |
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I think we should remove THAT rule and make rebounding more about positioning and technique (boxing out) again and less about which way the ball happens to bounce. Rich |
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The only advantage to the defense in going in on the release is that they have more time to push the offensive player away from the basket. |
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Mregor Disclaimer: Although we are all rules interpreters, I am not a rules interpreter for anyone other than myself at my particluar game I am working. Any post made by me is "just my opinion." It is worth what you paid for it. |
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Instead, now we have people on the lanes trying to game the system by sliding in the lane RIGHT at the last minute. Technically, we have violations on just about every free throw, but nobody (including me) calls it that way. I'm just venting. I just hate how they dumb the rules down so that they don't have to worry about officials. They did that in NFHS baseball, too, with the automatic appeal back in the 80s. It took more than a decade for them to realize how stupid that rule was and change it back to match the other codes. Rich |
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Well, I guess Bill had IILF's . . . . |
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Never seen it done this way . . . . . Most refs I see come out onto the court at about 15, do the meetings, check the book, then head back downstairs at 10 or so (when at least one team goes back to the lockers). They then come back up at 3 minutes left - whether teams were back on the court ahead of that time or not. |
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We (in WI) are on the court at 20 minutes. Captains meeting at 12:00, R checks the book right after while the U goes back to the sidelines. After the table meeting, R goes back across. Meet the coaches (V first) at 1:30 and ask the required question.
We don't leave the floor even if the teams do. Other WI officials may do it differently -- this is how my partners and I do every game. Rich |
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Dumbest rule?
My nominee is the "legal" jump stop. It is a travel in the base case, codified into legitimacy for some reason (maybe someone knows?) .... when you add in what higher level players (NBA and DI) are allowed to get away with (stepping after the stop, non-simultaneous landings), it makes for a lot of headaches at all levels. |
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Thanks, Stan |
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I don't like the result, but it's legal b/c of how the pivot rule is written. |
ChuckElias:
I see it differently. NFHS 4.42.2.b.2 is the origin of the jump stop ... the stated assumption is that the ball is caught with "one foot on the floor" ... if this article was not in the rule book, the one immediately preceding it would dictate that the foot on the floor is the pivot foot ... the article I cite, imho, is essentially an exception to the prohibition against the pivot foot returning to the floor. You do correctly point out that the jump stop deals with the establishment of a pivot foot but that (restrictions upon the pivot foot)is the core of the travel rule ... not two steps, or one-and-a-half steps. |
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