coach leaves

[rcwilco]

Strange game last night. One thing that happened in the JV game with about three minutes left in the game I look over to see the head coach leaving and the assistant is now standing giving instructions. Not knowing if he was sick or what at the first stoppage( a few seconds later) I signal my partner to hold his throw in and go over to the apparent new head coach.
"Coach where is the head coach?"
"I am"
"What happended to the original head coach?"
"He had to go help with the varsity like he always does and he may be back to finish the game."
I told him that a coach can't just leave anytime he feels like it. Then with the game waiting I ended up with telling him he was the head coach for the rest of the game and no new faces. He replied "sure" and we finished the game without incident. I did see the "old" head coach with the varsity players helping the varsity head coach.
I have to admit I have never had this happen before. The "new" head coach had been fine to work with and I (right or wrong) decided to let it go. Oh well one more thing for the pre game????????

[tomegun]

In your situation it worked out but you could get burned later. Some things to think about:

1. He comes back and the other coach sees this
2. What if he had one T on him and he got up
3. Isn't he out of the box?
4. If you T him for being out of the box he can't sit if he's gone
5. Is this covered in the rule book?
6. Didn't he know this before the game?

There are many bad things that could happen. Depending on how your area handles coaches you should deal with this. I'm new here but in Las Vegas, if he wants to go he can go! After the two shots, we will take the ball out at half court. I always watch the JV game and if this happened I would be scratching my head and ask the guys about it. Be careful.

[cropduster]

In our area JV games are more like Jr High games. I would let this one go.

Barry

[cmathews]

I say let it go also, especially in a JV game. We had a situation here in SE Wyoming about 3 years ago. A coach at one of the small schools here, is also the son of a coach from one of the other small schools. They are all known to be a pain in the *** in general, but that really has nothing to do with what happened. The son had a great team that went on to win state, at one game at a visiting school that was close to where dad coaches, he left his game early to go help dad coach his game. The sons game was pretty well decided and with about 5 minutes left in the game he left to go help dad...... Along the lines of the original situation, I think the box only applies to coaching, if the coach is leaving the bench area, I don't think a T is warranted..

[rainmaker]

The rule is that the head coach is the head coach regardless of where he wanders. If he needs to ... uh, step out for some reason, there is now no head coach, and the assistant does not inherit the privileges. I could see being a little flexible on this sometimes, but don't cut too much slack. Regardless of the level of play, these folks need to learn the rules, and learn how to follow them.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by rcwilco
I told him that a coach can't just leave anytime he feels like it.

Why not? I guess I would appreciate knowing ahead of time if he's got to leave before the end of the contest, but if he leaves and I don't notice, has he really done anything illegal?

with the game waiting I ended up with telling him he was the head coach for the rest of the game

Juulie stole the point that I really was going to make. This is where you screwed up (just a little, but a screw up, nonetheless). If the head coach is gone -- for whatever reason -- the person that takes over is NOT the new head coach. That person is still just an assistant and has no privileges of the coaching box. I realize the situation is not the assistant's fault; nevertheless, he is strictly confined to the bench.

[stan-MI]

And if there are indirect technicals, they are charged to the original head coach and count toward his ejection.

[davidw]

good point, Stan.

[David B]

Since this was JV I would not think its that big a deal.

We have JV games all the time that we have to shorten, or use a running clock or whatever to get them over with in time for the varsity to begin on time.

JV (even though the asst. coaches want to think so) are not that big a deal.

They are simply a chance for some of the guys to play in hopes they might make it to varsity later in the season or next year.

But that's in our neck of the woods. Maybe in other areas JV is a big deal.

Thanks
David

[JRutledge]

As long as this is does not affect the game or it does not affect your officiating, I really do not see an issue here. Do what you see as best and whether he is there or not. I really do not see an issue of who is the head coach or who is not. This is a JV game, which has different expectations and often you have to adjust to what they are doing in the game, this is no different.

I would rather use common sense in this situation than make a big deal out of who the coach is. Half the time some of these JV games are not played in actual uniforms, so why is this a stretch to adjust to this unusual situation?

Peace

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Why not? I guess I would appreciate knowing ahead of time if he's got to leave before the end of the contest, but if he leaves and I don't notice, has he really done anything illegal?

Juulie stole the point that I really was going to make. This is where you screwed up (just a little, but a screw up, nonetheless). If the head coach is gone -- for whatever reason -- the person that takes over is NOT the new head coach. That person is still just an assistant and has no privileges of the coaching box. I realize the situation is not the assistant's fault; nevertheless, he is strictly confined to the bench.

I don't recall reading this in the rule book or case book. Do you have a cite? If it's not done to gain an advantage, why should we care who is head coach or if he/she leaves and another takes his place?

[CLAY]

I am goiong to ask a question and I don't want to come across as a smartas* (Rainmaker)

Several of you have stated this is only a JV game. Don't the rules apply to all levels of basketball?

What is the differece between Varsity level or jr high basketball, are the rules different?

The point I am making is no matter what the level of play is, the participants deserve to have good officials that know the rules and don't pick and choose the rules they enforce. It does not matter what the score of the game is, who is in foul trouble, how much time is left in the game, etc. The rules do not change.

The kids and coahes no matter what the age group are busting their butts everyday with practice, homework, parnets getting them back and forth from practice and games. The kids playing jr high thru JV think their game is the only one in town, and we should officiate that way.

I think sometimes as officials we forget that the only level of play that "veteran officiating" is the varsity level.

The players, coach, fans should expect nothing less from an official regardless of the age group we are officaiting. As an offical you will hustle, you will be in proper position, you will give your best. IF you officate a JV or junior high game it should be officated as if it was a varsity contest, after all the players think it is.

Enforce the rules reqardless.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by CLAY
I am goiong to ask a question and I don't want to come across as a smartas* (Rainmaker)

Several of you have stated this is only a JV game. Don't the rules apply to all levels of basketball?

What is the differece between Varsity level or jr high basketball, are the rules different?

I do not think anyone said the rules do not apply. I think that many said that what happens at different levels are much different and consideration should be made for those differences.

I do not know about your area, but a JV game is often just for the kids to have some playing time against other teams. They do not always play the same time. They might not even have much of a halftime. You get people that work the table that are kids or have little to no experience at all. It is played 9:30am on Saturday morning. Often you are not playing on the "regular" gym. You might be lucky if you have "real" uniforms and not the practice kind.

Yes, in theory it would be nice to have security at all games and coaches that give a damn or players for that matter. But that is not always the case. Nor is it realistic. As I stated before I did a varsity game a few years ago where the Sophmore game before had the visiting team that had no front numbers. The officials did not T the entire team for this at all. Which was the proper thing to do. All that would have done is made the officials fight an uphill battle.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by David B
Since this was JV I would not think its that big a deal.

We have JV games all the time that we have to shorten, or use a running clock or whatever to get them over with in time for the varsity to begin on time.

JV (even though the asst. coaches want to think so) are not that big a deal.

Here, no game is shortened to start another. The Varsity game waits (rarely have too since they're usuallly scheduled 1:45 apart but sometimes 1:30). A JV game is treated like a Varsity game in most respects.

[Adam]

I think Rut's point here is that while officials are going to officiate the "game" the same regardless of whether it's jv or varsity, often times we'll officiate the side stuff differently. Uniforms are a key example, since I think we've all done JV stuff where at least one team is using practice uniforms colored differently from the shorts, with undershirts that match the shorts.
Yeah, the game's a big deal to the kids, but the side stuff isn't. I'd be inclined to let who ever seems to be acting as the head coach do what the h/c is allowed to do. If the head coach actually gets sick and goes home, are you really going to tell the assistant that he's gotta sit because he didn't start the game as the hc? The rules don't define who the hc is, so maybe we should go all the way to the HR department at the school to see which coach gets paid more. I say don't sweat it, and let them coach, rather than ask for unnecessary trouble.
Adam