On our way to our game yesterday my partner brought up 2 situations in which he was trying to get input about how he should have dealt with the situation. In both of these situations the coaches were upset with their teams and said nothing to the officials.

1) Late in the game team A downby a 2 or 3, A1 shoots a 3 and makes it and gets fouled. B coach jumps up yelling at B1 "How can you do that? etc..." and slams a clip board down on the floor so that it makes a very loud bang.

2) Team A was leading and has just giving up something like a 6 or 8-0 run and given up the lead. The last basket was an easy uncontested layup. The coach turns around after the play and kicks one of the chairs and knocks it down. Then proceeds to the end of the bench and sits down.

Just wondering if anyone out there would have T'd either coach or let it go and why.

Let it beeeee, let it be, let it beee, let it beeeee!
 

On the face of it, probably would not T a coach in either situation. If the coach is not mad at you, why create a problem?

I think that it would be best to just have a slight word with the coach about his behavior and if you can do it with humor. But if I know the actions were nothing about what I called, I probably would leave it alone. I would monitor to see if that behavior turns on me, then it would not be tolerated. But if a coach is not at all mad with you about a call, just have a slight word with him/her or their Asst. Coach. But I would not go fishing for a problem.

Peace

JRut - That was my feeling on it, if it is not directed at me I would stay away from it. I don't know if my partner had a conversation with the coach from the 1st situation, but he did say something to the other coach about not doing that kind of thing.

However, he did say that he thought especially in the chair kicking case he thought he probably should have T'd him because this is Unsportsmanlike and possibly dangerous.

I wasn't completely convinced about that but it got me thinking about what other thought.

The guy was obviously a poor sport, but I think it would be a stretch to T him for behavior relating to his own team, regardless of how neanderthal it was.

Had a similar situation a week ago where a player fouled out. She was unhappy and went back to the bench and kicked over one of the chairs. She never voiced a single complaint to either my partner or myself (though the coach whine about the calls a little).

We opted to just let it go. She seemed to get over her frustration with the kick of the chair and was a very vocal and polite cheerleader for her team the rest of the way. A T would only have made for an ugly confrontation and would not have improved the situation any.

Re: Let it beeeee, let it be, let it beee, let it beeeee!
 

JR, all you had to do was include the next words to the tune reference in your re: line: 'wisper words of wisdom,let it be...'

Grail

In our interp meeting this year while talking about sportsmanship that exact situation was mentioned and we were told that by rule we must T them on that. Believe it might have been on the the Fed's POE this year is why it was mentioned in our interp meeting.

Re: Re: Let it beeeee, let it be, let it beee, let it beeeee!
 

I am not that big of a Beatles fan, so honestly I was not sure what the next word was. But I am glad you cleared that up for me. ;)

Peace

why does one feel that if it was not directed to you the official that you would "let it go". how about when you here one of the players say bull shi* after a missed shot? they are not directing it to you! by all means in BOTH cases I would call a "t" because they ( the coaches) are to be an example to the players! if the coach can get away with poor behavior then the player will feel they can too.

That is why you address it.
 

I agree that it is not the most sportsmanlike act, but that does not mean we have to get involved, as long as this was a spontaneous act and that act was not directed at us. If you T up a coach, now you are directly involved, the coach might have further words with you, which might warrant another T and the game becomes about the officials, not the game. Then you have to explain why you gave a T, rather than talking about the game you officiated. Ts are to make the game better, not to possibly make the game worse. That is why I said to address it and warn, but not right off the bat stick him because you might have heard something (and if you are watching the court, that might be all you know about what happen) while you pay attention to the court. No different than a coach being out of the coaching box, if he is yelling at his players, I could care little where he is standing.

Peace

Who says that a player saying that would be a T? I am a basketball referee, not a language monitor. Who am *I* to determine what is profanity? I'm with Rut, if it isn't directed at me or another player and on the court, I'm not sticking my foot in it if I don't have to. When is saying something to yourself unsportsmanlike?

However, I do have a little story about a game I refereed years ago when I was just getting my feet wet. My former 10th grade teacher was coaching a freshman team at my Alma Mater and I was a last minute fill in. He got so peeved at his players he slammed his clipboard down and the metal end shot across the floor at my feet. Yup, he got one. He's now a Division I football official in the ACC.

Rich

I am with Rich on this one as well.
 

There is always degrees of certain actions. If a kid yells a profanity (or what is judged as one) at the top of his lungs and the person in the top row of the gym can hear him, that is one thing. But if a kid says the same thing to himself and you are about the only person that hears it, that is another story all together. And that is the only point I am making.

No one said you cannot have a "chat" or talk to a player or coach if their action is out of line. But at least on the second of my example, you better be careful if you first reaction is to stick him no matter what. Always use good judgement. And to me that would not be good judgement.

But that is my opinion.

Peace

I agree we are not language monitors, but taking care of profanity IS our responsibility. It is unsportsmanlike and definitely deserving of a T.

What if the player misses a lay up and runs back down the court and says "I f--king suck! I am the worst f--king basketball player ever to walk on the G-- d--n planet!" By your philosophy, since he wasn't directing it at an official, that would be acceptable right?

Not in my game.

Last night...
Player under his breath in lane space 1. Im about to bounce the ball to shooter
"****" under his breath I just turned my head and looked at him.. I musta looked with some kinna look in my eye cuz he said i was sorry. IT was the first shot so When I got up on the side of him i said- between me and you ima let that one go but lets keep it to ourselves next time.

Now- I did have one player kinna yell Son of a b----. But it was a pile of players so i really didnt know who it was. So the next trip down my partner had a foul and I was prepping to administer the free throws I just quitly said hey guys lets watch our mouths ok.. Next time we hear cursing we'll handle the situation if you know what I mean... one player looked at his team mate and kinna joking said .. hey man - keep your moth shut- you've got 3 fouls and that would send you home early. everyone in the lane kinna laughed. a simple 10 sec conversation solved the problem for the rest of the game :-D

Who can disagree with that?
 

It is really hard to disagree with a tirad with a kid using many profane words. Of course I would not expect you or other officials would not tolerate that. But if a kid does what happens much more by saying something that hardly anyone can hear them, that is another situation all together. I guess to each his own, you do have the right to what you feel is best, I will use what I feel is better judgement. Ts should be used to make the game better. If you can make the game better by not giving one, in my opinion that is always a win.

Peace

Big Dave,
I don't think Rich implied that in the least. :cool:
mick

Hey, I was having a boring night. Wanted to spice things up a bit. :)

I had a similar situation to the second situation described last year when a coach booted a chair. I'd given the guy two Ts in the previous two games I had him and he was a lou mouth again in this one. His player missed a shot so he turned around and booted a folding chair into the wall 15 feet behind him. I gave him the T. If it was directed at me I would have tossed him.

In terms of profanity, it's none of our business unless its directed at us or at other players. If a player is using too much profanity, let the coach deal with it. As was said don't put your foot in something that you don't have to.

Another situation concerning a
 

Team A had the ball just prior to half time. I was trail, off ball, and my partner was lead, on ball. Player from Team A set a bad screen in front of my partner and he called a blocking foul on Team A player. I froze to watch players as my partner cleared to report foul. As soon as my partner passed the player committing the foul, player got back up to his knees, raised hands all the way above his head, and while grunting, slapped both hands onto the floor as hard as could while glaring at my partners back. I rang him up for unsporting behavior, which totally set off the coach of the player from Team A. Just a question. Would any of you called the same "T". Also the same player received a second T in the second half by my partner, for language, and was ejected. Another question I have, is that I have to go and ref that school in another three weeks. Should I ask for a swap in games?

Re: Another situation concerning a
 

bcooley66,
Welcome to the Forum.

That player sounds like a head case. Two 'Ts' in one game, I think, qualifies.
...Sounds like a coaching or parenting shortfall.

I may have let it go and told the kid that, "You're too good a ball player to act like that." Or, I may have whacked him, too. Because you are questioning your 'T', I think maybe you could have had a word with him.

The technical foul is merely a tool at our disposal. Use it when you need it. When you use it, enforce it without emotion. It's part of doing business. It's part of maintaining a sporting atmosphere.

No, don't "swap games". Get out on the floor and I trust the 'T'd' player will behave himself. If not, whack him again.

mick

Re: Another situation concerning a
 

Absolutely not. If you swap games over one little thing like this, you will soon run out of schools to swap for.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick
[B]This reminds me of a situation I had a few years ago in high school. I was doing a "double"-Freshmen boys, Junior Varsity boys. In the Freshmen boys game, I tossed the coach of the hometeam (delayed the game for 15 minutes as I made him leave the confines of the gym-he took his time-gives you an idea of what I was dealing with). Then, before the start of the JV game the coach of the visiting team came up to me and said, "I see you are not afraid to give technical fouls." Five minutes into the JV game, I forget what he did, but I "t ed" him up. He turned to me and said he was absolutely deserving of that technical foul and that I would not hear another word from him the rest of the game. And, I didn't. My point here is that as referees, we do not use the technical foul as much as we should. In the first (1.) situation cited at the beginning of the thread, if the official had given the technical foul to the coach, he should have accepted it because he would have had no defense. His behavior was unacceptable. Of course, you can't take this situation out of context in order to determine what was the proper way to handle it, but it sounds like it may have been disruptive enough to warrant an action. You have to realize what message you are sending? Are you going to give the coach from the other team a freebie and let him slam his clipboard on the floor too. The second (2.)situation sounds like a slam dunk.
Note: The score of the game should not be a factor in making your decision. Case in point, the game ends with team A winning by one point. The coach of team A approaches you and says, "You are the worst referee I have ever seen." What are you going to do?

I'm going to congratulate him on being able to walk through walls; b/c the only way he's going to be able to approach me is if he chases me into the dressing room.

Game fees
 

You know its too late by then! Incidentally, I've seen that done.

My gut reaction on your first two situations are to probably not T them up, but would have to be there. Kid hitting both hands on floor and glaring at partner is a T for me. I beleive that he is bringing the officials into disrepute. I had the impression that the player did this a few seconds after the call was made. If the player did this immediately after the play without glaring at my partner I would consider that to be frustration with himself and make a comment.