First year ref. Rough Saturday. Had Freshman boys scrimmage (HS does not start real games until this Friday)at 10am and independent games at 1 (4th & 5th grade girls) and another after (7th & 8th grade girls). Did well in Freshman scrimmage (at least both coaches said good game, no complaints). Also did well in first game. I was by myself as my partner got held up at another HS scrimmage. Again both coaches said good game (knowing it was hard to do a game alone). Last game what a nightmare! We were on a tile floor and both teams were fairly physical. I made a bad call. Looked like girl had possession and fell to her knees, I called a walk, coach started screaming. Next dead ball I asked partner and he said she didn't have possession, wasn't a walk but not to worry about it. From this point on coach doesn't let up. Every call I make he gives it to me. One time shot goes up, is blocked, rolls on top of the backboard, comes down, no whistle, he goes ballistic. I tell him it's not OOB, finally his asst agrees, game goes on. Another time other team's girl receives ball, takes a step (pivot never comes down) and passes. He is screaming for a walk. As I go by, I say "Coach, you should really learn the rules". He screams "I know all the rules, you need to learn them". Half time comes, he walks up to me and says "You are the worst ref I have ever seen" I "T" him up. He says "good, go ahead". I give him 2nd T and point to the exit. He screams more, I go over to the score table and tell them 2 Technicals. 4 shots to be taken after half time (other team was half way in locker room) and ball to same team after the shots. Partner says we should have shot the Ts right then, and I should have walked away and not given the coach the 2nd T. I was so shaken up, I didn't have my head in the rest of the game and blew a few more calls I'm sure.

Just looking for some help from you experienced guys. What would you have done and how would you have handled the situation? I really felt like just hanging it up after that. Good thing I had 2 good games on Sunday with some praise from the coaches afterwards (and a great partner) or I'd still feel that way.

OldCoachNewRef,
You gave him no out. You baited him.
Know that criticism is not necessarily a two-way street.
You banged him and then should have gone to the table, "not hearing" his next comment.

Whether, or not, the guy earned two "Ts" is your call. You were there. He crossed your line, no one else's.

As far as his not knowing the rules, let him be. His assistant probably knew you were right. Call the game. And don't don't try to reason with the unreasonable.

We learn from experience. Next time you may do the same thing and feel more comfotable doing it, or next time you choose another tack.

Fun ain't it?

mick

It remains a game.

Wow, tough one. Here's my three cents.

1) Probably not a good idea to tell any coach (let alone an irate one) to learn the rules. He absolutely didn't know the rule in this case, but telling him that (especially the way you did) just puts gas on the fire. Kind of like telling my wife to "relax" when she really gets upset. :eek: Either find a better way to communicate with coaches, or simply ignore the comment and move on.

2) The coach deserved the first T without question. But I think your partner was right about moving away from the coach. Start walking to your partner to tell him what you have. If the coach is going to get the second T, you should make him earn it by following you or by screaming. He probably didn't deserve to get tossed for saying "Go ahead". Your reaction is understandable in such a heated situation, but that's exactly why it may help to physically move yourself away from the confrontation.

3) Your partner let you down by not attempting to diffuse the situation. He should've been attempting to create a buffer between the two of you. Maybe it all happened too fast for him to do that, but a good partner will try not to let his partner call both T's on a coach. We always say in pre-game, if I give him one, you better give the second one. That way it doesn't look personal.

Sounds like a really rotten experience. But don't let it keep you away. Learn from it. You'll be better.

Whatever else happened, your partner was wrong and you were right.

BTW - did you remember to stare at his pants and puke on his shoes? I mean the coach - not your partner. :p

1) There's your mistake right there. If he's complaining on every call, you don't put up with it. Warn him- then T him. If he keeps it up, then unload him with the 2nd. T. As mick said, do NOT make any comments back to him, except a generic "that's enough, coach".

2) No, you don't shoot the FT's for the T(s) right away. You start the 2nd half with them, then the shooting team gets the ball at center. Arrow doesn't change.

Well, I am sure to get blasted, but here is my humble opinions.

In situation 1, so you made a bad call. What is important is what you did afterward. You checked with your partner who offered that you may have missed it. No problem. Learn from it and move on. My concern is the coach started screaming.

In situation 2, might have been a good time to give a "stop sign," letting the coach know that was enough.

In situation 3...well, see number 2.

#4. Love the comment, but probably not the right thing to say. Of course, I was not there and do not know all that was involved. However, I would offer (again, IMHO). Try to keep comments "non-personal" when dealing with a coach. For example, maybe next time try, "Coach, that is not what I saw," or "Coach, I didn't see it that way."

5. I would agree with your partner on this one. Maybe walking away would have been better. But, were you able to walk away? Sometimes, we can not simply walk away. I believe the shots should have been attempted at the end of halftime, since the 2nd qtr had ended. But not sure.

Overall, I have one question. Where and what was your partner doing during all of this? If the coach is screaming at you or giving it to you pretty hard, your partner can step in and try to work out what is going on. Additionally, try and go to your partner and let him/her know what is going on, and see if they can offer anything.

Overall, sounds like you had a dickens of a game. These happen. Learn from it, realize what you could have done better and apply it next time. It sounds as if the coach wanted to go or just had it with what was going on.

I think often that when coaches are this upset, a partner can go over and get with him and ask him, "What is bothering you so much that you must continue to scream at the other official." Then work on that.

Don't give up!

Hey, old coach, new ref, here's the deal. If you learn from your mistakes, and also go back over your good games and learn from your successes, it's gotta get better from here. And no one could possibly be as bad as I was when I first started out, and even I got to the varsity level. If I can do it, anyone can!! Here's another secret -- try to have a sense of humor, and keep it in your head. The next time a coach yells at you, "This is the worst reffing I've ever seen!!" .. think to yourself, "...but you weren't at my game last week!" Outloud you say to the coach, "Okay, I heard you, now remember your box." and jog cool-ly down the floor. By the time the game is over, and you're leaving without any steam having left your ears, you'll feel great! And always remember my solemn promise to you, "If the rainmaker can do it, anyone can!"

Best quote I have heard from a new offical....

"...Coach, you think that one was bad...wait until you see the next one...

I know I've posted these before but they've helped me in dealing with coaches.

Phrases to use when dealing with coaches:
"Coach, you're right."
"I may have missed that one."
"Coach, I'm right. I know I'm right."

If the situation doesn't call for any of these three, strongly consider biting your tongue and moving on.

Most of all, don't let the one bad game affect your opinion of the two good ones. We have to learn from our bad games, but not at the expense of enjoying the good ones. 2 of your first 3 games went very well. Not many of us can say that!

It will only get better from here! Keep on having fun at it and learning and it will keep on being fun.

hab_in_exile,
Why are you in exile?
Why are you not in Canada?
Why are you not on the hockey forum? ;)
mick

There were games that I had during my first year where, if it had been my first game, it would have been my last game. This is now my third year and I still have games that are not as much fun as others, but the overall experience is well worth it. I love the game of basketball and enjoy officiating.

So, you have a tough game or two...shrug...the good will far outweigh the bad. ;)

You are not as good as you appear to be at your best and you are not as bad as you appear to be at your worst. Do the best job you can and have fun!

And the other side of the coin:

"Good call ref!"
"Yep, I get one per game, that one was yours coach."

BTW the original poster let this coach get away with way, way, way too much. If he's on you the entire game it is YOUR fault.

Well, it's all pretty much been said. What have we learned?

#1 - Don't bait the coach.

#2 - When he gets ugly, give him a stern warning.

#3 - The next time he gets ugly, bust his a$$, and get away.

#4 - BUT, if you can't get away and he wants another one, give it to him.

Now, aren't you ashamed of your behavior when you were a coach? :D

It's like deja vu, all over again
 

I had a very, very, very similar experience early in my first year. Called a foul on the guy in the block on a foul shot for pushing off. Stupid play, good call. Coach goes off at me and I handle it very badly. Things with him go from bad to worse and soon he earns his first T, and keeps challenging me for his second.

It was a semi-final game in a valley-wide championship tournament and I had been looking forward to the assignment. It ruined my whole night. It ruined my whole week. It made me want to hang it up.

Luckily I had some other games scheduled in another league and I didn't want to turn them back. Got back in the saddle (no pun intended) and had a good experience the next assignment. I haven't looked back since.

Funny enough, it was just about that time in my career that I found this board.

I have to agree with what everybody has said. Deal with the coaches professionally. Get away after the first T. And don't let it get you down. All the things I didn't do that night either.

The good news is that you've got a lot of really fun experiences ahead of you. Keep going. Work hard. It's amazing how much you can improve in just one year and how genuinely satisfying that is! One year on, I can hardly remember the worthless b@stard that made me want to hang it up. I'll be working that same tournament again this year. I'm betting he won't even be there. However, if he is, and if we have trouble again, I know I'll handle it very differently. And if he needs to leave before the game is over, I won't lose a moments sleep this time. :D

Everyone, almost everyone, has given you good advice. I will add this. Do not live and die by a "pat on the back" you get from coaches after the game. If we let that bother us we would all quit because it is very emotional for a lot of coaches and they will not be happy with you after a loss.



IMHO
If I'm thinking of this the way Uncle Ernie means it
I hope I understand what he is saying

DON'T, I repeat, DON'T console a coach after your partner gave him a T for an obvious reason. No lengthy explaination, no close interaction and no "why did you....." Once again I might have it wrong but, this is showing sympathy for a coach and can divide a crew. I would think "why is he comforting that coach after he just cussed me out" or whatever he did. In a two person game there shouldn't be anyone by the coach and in a 3 person game I will purposely turn my back to the coach and look at the other 9 players just so someone in the top row will be able to see that I'm not talking to the coach about the T. It is simple communication "coach you got a T and you must sit for the rest of the game." We have to stay togeter on the court. At most you have 6 people on your team and as little as 2 people.

R, U1, U2, scorer, timer and shot clock operator. Or R and U. We have to stick together.
If I didn't understand you Uncle Ernie I'm sorry but I have been on the sidelines and in the game when this happened and it isn't good.

I agree with all of the other replies (execpt the one liners, they are fun to hear but don't use them in your game :)). One thing you can do if a coach is yelling at you go tell him he/she doesn't need to yell, you can hear them just fine. If that brings them down and they start "talking" or shut-up - good job; however, if they yell again I would whack 'em. I hear you is always a good response to a coach too. Great job working those two games one-man, that is tough to do.

D

I would like to thank everyone for their help and suggestions. You guys are the reason I started officiating. About 3 years ago, I started lurking on this board (got the URL from a coaches forum)to find out why all the refs I had during my games were so bad (not realizing mostly all of them were first or second year refs, or refs that had not passed their exams). At that time I was coaching 7th and 8th grade boys and 5th and 6th grade girls (very small school, no one volunteered, so I did it). After reading here, I really started watching the refs and saw they were trying to apply things they learned from class into the games, and my talking, yelling, et al did not help them concentrate on their games. I was probably making them worse than they really were.

I really love the game. Played HS, College, coached every level (still coaching AAU in the spring)except college, and now reffing at 49. You old timers (not age, just board time) have helped me in every aspect of the game especially Mick, ChuckElias, JR, Rut, Dan_ref, tomegun, Back in the Saddle, and BktBallRef.

I have read with great interest how RainMaker has evolved as a ref and just hope I can come close to being as understanding and as good as she is.

And BktBallRef do you know me? Your post:
**************
Well, it's all pretty much been said. What have we learned?

#1 - Don't bait the coach.

#2 - When he gets ugly, give him a stern warning.

#3 - The next time he gets ugly, bust his a$$, and get away.

#4 - BUT, if you can't get away and he wants another one, give it to him.

Now, aren't you ashamed of your behavior when you were a coach?
**************

How did you know my behavior was that bad? And yes, looking back I am very much ashamed of the way I acted in some games (although not quite as bad as what happened to me, I usually stopped after the first "T").

Again, thank you to all. By the way did a CYO pre Christmas tourney championship game last night, close game all the way until the end when one of the teams nailed 3 straight 3 pointers. Had a blast. Still need work with my mechanics and am sometimes calling in my partners primary (sometimes I see things and react quickly, need to slow down and trust my partner, and probably shouldn't even be looking there) but overall I really had fun! It is a good feeling when the losing coach shakes your hand and says good game. That's how I know I called a decent game.

No, I don't think I know you personally but I've met you a hundred times. I work one of your games about once a week. You're on the sideline complaining about things you don't understand. You think we're making calls against your team because we don't like you. We don't like your team either. It's bad enough when you win but when you lose, man! It's bad!

I would say that well over 90% of coaches go through this. Fortuantely, most mature as a coach, their knowledge improves and they focus on things they can actually control. They realize that we do this because we love it, that we're all going to miss 'em now and then and that we're not out to get you. If they didn't, very few of us would be working.

My statement was just a lucky, high percentage guess. ;)

"Coach, I'm blind not deaf!" :)

Please, don't ANYONE use what the coach says as a "good judge of how you called a game". Although it's nice when they say "good game", just because they say, "you sucked" doesn't necessarily mean we called a bad game.

Two thoughts to ponder...

1.) Perhaps officials who have only been officiating a year or so shouldn't be officiating in championship games.

2.) Inexperienced officials turn to T's because they don't know how to rectify a tough situation or talk a coach in off the ledge.

[Edited by Indy_Ref on Dec 16th, 2003 at 02:58 PM]

along these same lines....
 

When they tell me good call, I like to say,"It's that law of averages thing."

Handling Coaches

Types of Coaches

The Good Guy
The Time Bomb-easy to know when he "goes off"
The Toothache: never goes away
The Hemorrhoid: never lets up
The Surgeon: dissects you for 32 minutes and you don't
even know it

Dealing with Coaches successfully:

Don't argue
Be firm and be Fair
Be courteous
Avoid Eye to Eye
Don't use their language
Lend a reasonable ear

Calling the Technical Foul

Know your tolerance threshold
Consider giving an initial strong warning. Let your
partner know about the warning.
After calling the T, talk with your partner. Know what
to do next
Get away from coach. Partner needs to help avoid an
immediate 2nd T
Take a deep breath to calm yourself
Report clearly to the table
Reminder- Head coach must sit after technical foul is
called. This also includes an indirect
technical foul asssessed to the head coach.
Coach may rise to applaud a good play, call
a timeout or request a timer/scorer/official
error per rulebook

The conduct of coaches continually amazes me, particularly at the middle school level you spoke of. I have coached two seasons a year of bball for 15 years (girls in the fall, boys in the winter) and am constantly amazed at how my opposing coach conduct him/herself. Perhaps I'm just to slow and dimwitted to worry about both my players AND the officiating. If a young coach ever asks me for advice (I don't see a line forming yet) I think the first words from my mouth are going to be "just shut up and coach. You are a PROFESSIONAL! Act like one!" If some of my collegues would just remember that they are role models, particularly at the 5/6 & 7/8 grade levels, perhaps we wouldn't have 16 year olds who taunt, bait, disrespect opponents and officials. God this stuff irritates me...sorry to go off but you struck a chord.

Wish you worked in Portland. We have a couple coaches here, who act like you do, and they are so nice to work for. One game I had one like you and one of the other kind. The Other Kind says, "He's just trying to butter you up." I thought, "Yea, maybe so, but if it works, shouldn't you be trying it?"

Nice to hear this coming from a coach.

What makes the situation worse is these young hot heads are paired with new refs (mostly) who don't know how to handle this type of thing in a professional manner themselves.

Seems it might have been the perfect thing to say to him, you might have gotten the chance to see the lightbulb go on over his head. :)

btw, you think coach meant to use the big G or the little g in his post?

:p

I didn't want to imply that I was favoring the other coach, even though I suppose I was.

Little g, I hope. Big G in that context, kinda pushes my buttons.

Sorry about that...how about this?

"Gosh this stuff irritates me."

Coach, it's definitely my problem, and I usually control it, although I wish they'd develop a medication that helped! You're un-howler enough that I can let the occasional big G slide. Gosh, Golly, Gee Whiz, all sound so lame, I know. Actually, the sentence stands pretty tall with no expletive at all. But don't worry about me, in this case. I'm definitely not T'ing for it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WinterWillie

Quote:

Originally posted by OldCoachNewRef Dealing with Coaches successfully: Don't argue Be firm and be Fair Be courteous Avoid Eye to Eye Don't use their language Lend a reasonable ear

I agree with most, but I always look them in the eye and I do use "their language", but only so they can hear it.

D