Okay, I Just Plain Blew It!

[rainmaker]

Girls' Varsity (man, it feels good to type that in!). I'm trail. Score close. A1 in front of me passes toward the other side of the floor. B1 jumps up and deflects, ball heads toward backcourt and far side from me. B2 runs to retrieve, dives over the oob line, flings ball. I called oob, gave the ball back to A. Coach B is jawing away, but I couldn't understand what he was talking about. Later, I asked my partner. He said B2 was still in the air when she threw the ball and furthermore, I should have let him make the call, since it was his sideline. He said it very nicely, and not the least critical, although perhaps he should have been.

Here are the questions: 1. I thought trail had the whole back court. Obviously, this didn't work very well in this case. Should I have not called this? I mean, I could have at least checked with my partner, but SHOULD I have?

2. Could partner have run in and given me the chance to correct? What would the correction be? an inadvertant whistle? I guess not...

Well, just plain ol' "RATS!!"

[mick]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Girls' Varsity (man, it feels good to type that in!). I'm trail. Score close. A1 in front of me passes toward the other side of the floor. B1 jumps up and deflects, ball heads toward backcourt and far side from me. B2 runs to retrieve, dives over the oob line, flings ball. I called oob, gave the ball back to A. Coach B is jawing away, but I couldn't understand what he was talking about. Later, I asked my partner. He said B2 was still in the air when she threw the ball and furthermore, I should have let him make the call, since it was his sideline. He said it very nicely, and not the least critical, although perhaps he should have been.

Here are the questions: 1. I thought trail had the whole back court. Obviously, this didn't work very well in this case. Should I have not called this? I mean, I could have at least checked with my partner, but SHOULD I have?

2. Could partner have run in and given me the chance to correct? What would the correction be? an inadvertant whistle? I guess not...

Well, just plain ol' "RATS!!"

If you saw B2 violate, you were right to make that call.

If you weren't sure, then don't make a call. We don't ask for a partner's help if the ball is still live.

Well, on to the next game....

mick

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Here are the questions: 1. I thought trail had the whole back court.

Juulie, obviously, this is something that you'll cover in pre-game from now on, isn't it? When I'm R, the Trail has the whole backcourt in transition. Once the ball has reached the frontcourt, we revert to normal coverages; which means the Lead has his/her sideline all the way to the far endline. It's just something you'll need to talk about beforehand. And if you don't get to talk beforehand, then I would err on the side of "by the book"; which, in this case, means that you would've left it alone.

Should I have not called this?

Probably not. But what're ya gonna do?

I mean, I could have at least checked with my partner, but SHOULD I have?

I think your role in this situation is one of support. Your partner has first crack at it. If you're sure it's OOB, and he didn't grab it, then fine. Put a whistle on it. But you should probably be the second one in on that OOB call. (The backcourt possibility is another story, of course. That's yours all the way.)

2. Could partner have run in and given me the chance to correct? What would the correction be? an inadvertant whistle? I guess not...

Of course he could've. But as you note, it would not have been an easy fix. Maybe he thought that it was better for the game to move on.

Well, just plain ol' "RATS!!"

You can't win 'em all, Charlie Brown.

That's 5 cents, please.

[rcwilco]

My understanding from the officials manual is that the lead has the baseline and nearest sideline for all OOB calls.
Our senior officials here have taught me that if I am 110% sure of a different call for OOB to go quickly to my partner, say something like "did you see........" and leave it on their shoulders. I am betting this would be an inadvertant whistle as the ball did not go OOB and there is no change in direction or the call. Maybe it was better with your partner just letting it go rather than work through all of the explanations. By the by I did the same thing in a camp a few years ago in front of evaluators, when they got done with me I have not done it since.

[Dan_ref]

Chuck sums up pretty well my thoughts on this. I'll add:

- if I was absolutely 100% positive you blew the call I would have been more inclined to come in & offer some new info than Chuck seems to be. Not saying always, kinda depends on how things are going. I certainly wouldn't rule it out. If you then decide to change your mind it's simply an inadvertent whistle, give it back to B.

- Again, depending, I might have gone to coach B after I spoke to my partner. "Hey coach, about that OOB play? My partner agrees with you". Or something like that. Then smile, wink, whatever, and go about your business.

[tomegun]

Sometimes things just happen. Just think one small thing that could have possibly been a mistake will benefit both teams in every game you have from now on. That's pretty good.

[rockyroad]

Juulie, the only thing I can add to Mick, Chuck, and Dan's comments is that pehaps your partner did not "fix" the call because he (or she) believed it would only make things worse - whether that be upsetting a coach or damaging your credibility or the crew's integrity...example: three-person game with very new official...I am T, new partner is L...play on my sideline and we have double whistle - I have fist up for a foul, but new partner comes out hammering an oob call and pointing the other direction...my choices: 1)go to partner and tell her that it's my call and I am calling the foul - which would make her look foolish to everyone there and probably cause her to go into the tank...or 2)turn and run down the court and take heat from coach who lost the ball - but it's me talking with coach, not new partner...I choose #2...perhaps your partner choose not to "fix" your call because he didn't want to cause more problems that leaving it alone would cause...geez - that's pretty long-winded for me...sorry about that!

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by rockyroad
Juulie, the only thing I can add to Mick, Chuck, and Dan's comments is that pehaps your partner did not "fix" the call because he (or she) believed it would only make things worse - whether that be upsetting a coach or damaging your credibility or the crew's integrity...

perhaps your partner choose not to "fix" your call because he didn't want to cause more problems that leaving it alone would cause...geez - that's pretty long-winded for me...sorry about that!

I expect you've got it. He was a very nice guy and a great partner, and a good ref. The whole thing was pretty much no big deal, except to me who still wants to be perfect (you'd think by 47 I'd start to realize the reality...) and the coach who saw the whole thing'better than I did.

Dan, if I'd been the least unsure, I'd have looked to my partner, but the sad part was I didn't even realize I'd blown it until later. Way later. Didn't even get to practice saying to the coach, "I may have blown that one, coach".

Oh, well, now I get to practice, "Live and learn!"

[TriggerMN]

Trust your partner. Don't call his line.

Easier said than done, though, with some officials.

[mick]

Originally posted by rainmaker
... but the sad part was I didn't even realize I'd blown it until later. Way later.

Sounds like you're stealing my lines.
mick

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Girls' Varsity (man, it feels good to type that in!). I'm trail. Score close. A1 in front of me passes toward the other side of the floor. B1 jumps up and deflects, ball heads toward backcourt and far side from me. B2 runs to retrieve, dives over the oob line, flings ball. I called oob, gave the ball back to A. Coach B is jawing away, but I couldn't understand what he was talking about. Later, I asked my partner. He said B2 was still in the air when she threw the ball and furthermore, I should have let him make the call, since it was his sideline. He said it very nicely, and not the least critical, although perhaps he should have been.

Here are the questions: 1. I thought trail had the whole back court. Obviously, this didn't work very well in this case. Should I have not called this? I mean, I could have at least checked with my partner, but SHOULD I have?

Trail has the primary play (usually the ball) in the backcourt but the sideline and secondary play remains the lead's. As you found out, line calls are very difficult when being viewed from across the court.

A related example demonstrating lead/trail backcourt coverage that goes against "lead has the entire backcourt"...
A1, A2, B1 and B2 are around the FT line extended on the trail's side in the backcourt. B3 and A3 are on the opposite side halfway between the FT line extended and the division line. A1 passes the ball to A3 who is contacted as the ball is arriving. That is initially the lead's call even though it is in the backcourt since the lead was already covering those players and saw the whole play. The trail will likely not know the whole situation. If there had been no initial call, the trail would shift to those players and the lead would, after the trail has it covered, shift furher upcourt.

Likewise, the sideline is the lead's. The trail should only make that call if the lead doesn't AND it is absolutely obvious that it is OOB.

I've made that mistake before only to have the lead inform me that they were still inbounds by a few inches. I've also seen it made where I was the lead and the partner called it. In one case, the player was inbounds by about 2 feet and my partner called it from about 30 feet across the court.

I think where this gets confused is that often the trial will know who a ball was off of when it has clearly been knocked OOB (while the lead does not) and several official have the trail take that call (in spite of it being lead's line). Me, my line, my whistle (unless it is in the bleachers and I'm asleep)...but I'm not afraid to then defer to the trail to make the call.

Originally posted by rainmaker

2. Could partner have run in and given me the chance to correct? What would the correction be? an inadvertant whistle? I guess not...

They could but I'm not sure they would or that it would be best. It's not exactly like deciding who hit it last before it went out.

[Edited by Camron Rust on Dec 12th, 2003 at 01:55 PM]

[mick]

T'other night. I'm Center opposite.

...The ball comes from table side, somewhere between the lane and the sideline. As it passes through the lane and eight players, I follow it to my sideline. *Tweet !!???*

I look to my good Lead and he shook his head. I shook my head and went thumbs up.

I didn't see it.
Lead didn't see it.
Coach saw it. "It was just a bad pass that no one touched!!!"

My Lead said, "Coach, I believe you, but we're not allowed to ask you."

Coach smiled.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

If you then decide to change your mind it's simply an inadvertent whistle, give it back to B.

From reading, it's unclear that B has possession of the ball. Sounds to me more like the ball was loose, in which case you're going with the AP. Which, IMHO, would just add a new bit of ugliness to the situation.

[mick]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle

From reading, it's unclear that B has possession of the ball. Sounds to me more like the ball was loose, in which case you're going with the AP. Which, IMHO, would just add a new bit of ugliness to the situation.

No player control?
Okay.
How 'bout team control?
mick

[Kelvin green]

Now I am going to add my two cents and tell Juulie that she was 100% correct in making that call. It is true that it was not her sideline but ball was in her primary. This is a situation where the officials book does not make sense. Where I officiate trail has first shot at OOB call above FT Line extended... Heres why Trail has ball Lead has off ball which means usuall a bunch of players down the floor. If I am watching off ball there is no way I saw a ball go OOB 30 ft away, unless I am not watching what I am supposed to... If it really wasnt OOB whoops wont be the first thing you ever missed... Iflead was watching player in mid air aint noone watching off ball.. Good Job Juulie I love that mechanic. This just emphasizes you have to work to the middle of the floor (or beyond ) to work the ball! With those mechanics I'd work with you anytime. I know Garote likes it that way too...

Second on Micks missed call... I dont like the mechanic he describes... If you dont see ball and ask partner for help.. Partner should not shake his head- Partner should go up with it... Its quick and immediate and tells everybody neither one of you have it... If he does not go up and you pause or do anything but a jump now you are dead...