PC?

[drinkeii]

Hi - One more - Just wanted to confirm my idea.

A1 is dribbling downcourt, with B1 in front of them, running sideways in front of them, having never established a legal guarding position. A1 reaches out and pushes B1, clearly displacing them from their current movement. Call?

My presumption is PC or No-Call, depending on the severity of the push and displacement. Some people have said that it can't be PC, because B1 never obtained a LGP. My premise it is a foul to reach out and push someone, regardless of who or where, therefore, since it is a foul, and it is by the dribbler, it is a PC.

Thanks in advance!

Dave Rinke

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by drinkeii
Hi - One more - Just wanted to confirm my idea.

A1 is dribbling downcourt, with B1 in front of them, running sideways in front of them, having never established a legal guarding position. A1 reaches out and pushes B1, clearly displacing them from their current movement. Call?

My presumption is PC or No-Call, depending on the severity of the push and displacement. Some people have said that it can't be PC, because B1 never obtained a LGP. My premise it is a foul to reach out and push someone, regardless of who or where, therefore, since it is a foul, and it is by the dribbler, it is a PC.

Thanks in advance!

Dave Rinke

This is a pushing foul by A1. Since A1 was in control of the ball at the time of the foul, A1's foul is a player control foul. From the description of your play I would speculate that B1 had already obtained/established a legal guarding postion against A1.

[drinkeii]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

This is a pushing foul by A1. Since A1 was in control of the ball at the time of the foul, A1's foul is a player control foul. From the description of your play I would speculate that B1 had already obtained/established a legal guarding postion against A1.

No - they had never met the requirements to establish a LGP... they were running along side A1 at the time, and maybe cut a little in front, but never planted 2 feet initially, and never made any contact with A1 at any time, except for when A1's hand came out and pushed them. No change to the call, correct? Still PC by your description?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by drinkeii

No - they had never met the requirements to establish a LGP... they were running along side A1 at the time, and maybe cut a little in front, but never planted 2 feet initially, and never made any contact with A1 at any time, except for when A1's hand came out and pushed them. No change to the call, correct? Still PC by your description?

I am having trouble understanding your original post. How many players are involved? Just A1 and B1, or are there more Team A players involved?

If A1 is dribbling in a straight line and B1 is directly in front of A1 (and this is how I am envisioning your description), then it would be very dificult to say that B1 is not guarding A1. Regardless, the foul is on A1 and it is a player control foul for the reasons I have already stated.

[canuckrefguy]

I'm asking myself "who initiated the contact?".

B1 has the right to be running near A1, so long as he does not contact A1.

A1 pushing B1 out of his path is clearly a PC foul, I think. Unless I'm missing something, here.

[drinkeii]

Originally posted by canuckrefguy
I'm asking myself "who initiated the contact?".

B1 has the right to be running near A1, so long as he does not contact A1.

A1 pushing B1 out of his path is clearly a PC foul, I think. Unless I'm missing something, here.

Ya, I think that is the confusion - B1 is guarding A1, but never established a LGP (2 feet on the floor inbounds, facing the player, between them and the basket) - they were attempting to get in front of them or stay in front of them, but never established a position. A1, while running down the court, initiated the contact on B1 (who could have been guarding him or could have just been running in the area in front of A1) by reaching out away from his body and pushing B1, causing B1 to move in a different direction from their initial movement. B1 was attempting to guard A1, but for purposes of block/charge calls, B1 had never established a LGP - the play which generated this situation was in transition, just over the half court line.

And no other A or B players were involved - everyone else was in transition, and no one was near those two, since it was near one side of the court.

[BktBallRef]

Whether B1 ever had LGP or not is of no consequence if A1 pushes him. B1 is still entitled to his space on the floor.

[canuckrefguy]

You nailed it. Thanks!

[WinterWillie]

Ya, I think that is the confusion - B1 is guarding A1, but never established a LGP (2 feet on the floor inbounds, facing the player, between them and the basket)

You can have a legal guarding position without this. You can even be moving and have a legal guarding position.

[rainmaker]

LGP doesn't apply in this situation, as Tony said. You have to see the putting out of the arm as the foul. LGP only really applies to block/charge where there's someone bodily running into someone else.

[rob.wilson]

Handcheck?