Need help with this one...2 man crew, I am in Trail opposite table; partner in lead table-side. Ball is fumbled and rolls loose from my side beyond 3 pt line and rolls OOB on the baseline, my side. Partner looks for help - I had the call - I signal ball goes to Blue (offensive team) stays in frontcourt. Before I can get in position tableside, partner mistakenly hands ball to White and they make baseball pass length of court and score EZ lay-up. I blow the whistle and advise table to score basket (I'm 99% sure this is right - non-correctable error) We inbound the ball to blue in their front court where the original OOB spot was. Should we have inbounded the ball under Whites basket and allowed them to run the end line, or were we correct?

Yes and No. No you should not have inbounded in the front court. However, you are right, it is not correctable, so Blue should have taken the ball out under whites basket as you would in any other made basket situation. Good call to count the bucket.

Communication
 

This first started off as a communication problem. You partner should have waited until you were in position and you had made eye contact with them. This is where eye contact can avoid most correctible error situations.

I don't see how you can count the basket. The ball belonged to blue on the baseline, spot throw-in. Just because white thought the ball belonged to them does not mean it does and they can score. Cancel the basket, bring the ball back to the baseline for a spot throw-in. Maybe I missed something. But the correctable rule section 2-10 starts off "Officials may correct an error if a rule is inadvertently set aside". Then section 2-10-1e says "Erroneously counting or canceling a score." That appears to be the case. White was not intitled to score but they did. So you correct the play. I have had the wrong team score before and cancelled the basket, it usually happens in JHS games.

Oops.
 

Jerry,
Check out Case Book 7.5.2B
mick

Re: Communication
 

Yeah, eye contact is very important on throw-ins but this
case is *not* a correctable error. It's just a referee
f*** up.

You are absolutely correct Mick - this is not a correctable error. By rule you cannot correct it anytime after you have granted the throw-in to the incorrect team.

Best way to handle it: Do a "mea culpa" with the coach that is seriously ticked off at you! :)

Bradley,
A What with the coach?

mea culpa
 

Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa

My fault, my most grievous fault.
mick

<B>me·a cul·pa</B></A> <I>n.</I> An acknowledgment of a personal error or fault.

It can be corrected until the ball is touched inbounds on the erroneous throw-in. If you blow the whistle prior to that point, the only rule you have is the one that caused the ball to be dead the first time. That allows you to some time to correct it. (See case 6.3.1D for a similar situation)

Camron,
I think the thread was talking about the play after the wrong team threw the ball in and not an "Oops, gimmee back that ball." :)
mick

Had a similar situation occur in a JV game. Inbounding Team A was late getting out after a TO, so I put the ball on the floor and began the count. A confused defensive player, assuming the ball was up for grabs, darted out of bounds, picked up the ball, and tossed it to a teammate in one fell swoop.

I was too startled to react immediately, but finally blew the whistle stopping play before Team B scored and awarded the ball to Team A (again).

Case 7.5.2B seems pretty clear in showing what I did to be in error. Needless to say, I'll be more protective of the ball in the future.

Sven

Sven,
Did you also "Warn" defense for breaking the plane,
per Rule 7-6-3 ?

mick

Sven, i think Mick gives you an out on this one. Just call violation on the def., official warning and play on.

wrong player with the ball
 

I am somewhat confused. I have read the casebook play mentioned and I disagree with the solution. I cannot believe that if the wrong team gets the BOB and throws it in an then scores, that it cannot be corrected. In the first place a number of rules have been broken by the wrong player throwing in the ball. Delay of game, breaking the plane (as mentioned). I really want to know if the veteran officials on this forum would really let the wrong team score and not correct it. The casebook is the only place this problem is discussed or explained and I think wrongly. If I were a really smart coach, I would get away with this at least once every game. I have always believed that the NFHS rules are very logical, this play and solution to let the score count just because an official (s) went to sleep for a few seconds is not logical or fair. If this really happened in a game would you let the basket count?

Re: wrong player with the ball
 

Jerry,
I agree with your logic, but I would bet that "a really smart Coach" would not get away with that every game, unless his "every day officials" were "rule book challenged".
Perhaps the "logic" of this rule is an emboldened message to us to never make this mistake. Onus on us.
mick

Hold it guys! Better look at this one again!
 

Actually, in the circumstance that you described, you were right in what you did. <b>The difference is that your play was NOT a mistake by an official.</b> It would be considered either an unsportsmanlike act or an act of confusion.

If you feel that B1 just took advantage of the sitch, then

a. Charge Team B with a technical foul.
b. Cancel the field goal, if B scored.
c. Cancel any common foul(s) committed and any nonflagrant foul against Team B in the act of shooting.
d. Put "consumed" time back on the clock.

Comment: If there is no doubt the throw-in was a result of confusion, <b>especially after a time-out,</b> the entire procedure would be followed except no technical foul would be charged. This procedure shall not be used in any other throw-in situation in which a mistake allows the wrong team to inbound the ball.

The only error of omission that you may have committed would be a failure to put time back on the clock.

Sometimes we don't screw up when we think we screwed up! You got it right and you didn't even know it!

[Edited by BktBallRef on Nov 22nd, 2000 at 11:56 PM]

Seems fair now
 

BBR,
Thanks! I agree with your solution much better than the one mentioned in the case book. I guess this just points out that no matter how hard we try, we officials will occassionaly make mistakes. It is bad enough that the coach, fans, etc. are on us but to have the NFHS in part, assume we will never make a mistake and not be able to correct the mistake made. I really hope the NFHS will expand the correctiable rule section, to include plays like the ones discussed above. What really scares me is that the wrong team could win a ball game by my inability to react quick enough to prevent the wrong team from scoring. Thanks again.
Jerry

The situations are not the same
 

Yes, but again, there's a difference in this play and the one that was originally posted.

1st Play - In the original post, it was an official who erred when he gave the ball to the wrong team. This CANNOT be corrected.

Sven's play - The official did not make a mistake. He properly placed the ball on the floor when A did not return after a timeout. B1 picked the ball up and inbounded it. This can be corrected per my previous post.

Don't confuse the two different plays.

Great discussion, gentlemen. I really appreciate the input and the chance to continue learning.

Sven